j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Jan 30, 2015 20:38:24 GMT
Can't find them on here so assume they do not have a dedicated board.
Has anyone used them? If so, what is their experience? I had a look at some of their investment offerings & their fees seem excessive. They charge for everything with VAT & before deducting other costs (ie from gross profit, etc rather than net, which I found very cheeky at best)
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Jan 30, 2015 23:10:12 GMT
I had not previously heard of them, but after seeing your post I have dipped my toes in the water with them. They say that their quoted rate of return is net of all costs - is that not right?
Quote:
We believe in complete transparency and all projected returns are shown net of all known costs, expenses and our fees.
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 540
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Post by j on Jan 31, 2015 8:21:20 GMT
I had not previously heard of them, but after seeing your post I have dipped my toes in the water with them. They say that their quoted rate of return is net of all costs - is that not right? Quote: We believe in complete transparency and all projected returns are shown net of all known costs, expenses and our fees. Have a look at their detailed fees which you can access by selecting a particular project& clicking relevant sections on the cost segments. I just think they are excessive & taken off gross figures, before costs are deducted, etc (eg if you make say £5000 profit on sale, their share is 15%, which is calculated before deducting agents fees, solicitor fees & any other related fees, so they advertise £5k profit but the net figure is a heck of a lot less, I've seen as little as £1.5k down from the advertised £5k). Yes, they are transparent to an extent, but also not so much if you do not delve deeper & only look at the headline figures. That puts me off!
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Jan 31, 2015 10:17:22 GMT
Thanks j. I will put your points to them.
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j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 540
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Post by j on Jan 31, 2015 10:50:06 GMT
Thanks j. I will put your points to them. On the positive side, the entry level is less than others (eg THC) & they are more geographically diversified. If they address the other issues, I'll happily invest significantly.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jan 31, 2015 11:10:49 GMT
Does no-one else mind these childish names? The 'z' in Assetz (I assume it's just a 'cool s'?) genuinely delayed me depositing for months...
And I'm younger than most on this board (if the survey was accurate) - but maybe that's why I find it offensive!
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jan 31, 2015 11:27:11 GMT
Does no-one else mind these childish names? The 'z' in Assetz (I assume it's just a 'cool s'?) genuinely delayed me depositing for months... And I'm younger than most on this board (if the survey was accurate) - but maybe that's why I find it offensive! I'm with you. It puts me off. It took me an extra month to join AC.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jan 31, 2015 11:33:48 GMT
Have a look at their detailed fees which you can access by selecting a particular project& clicking relevant sections on the cost segments. I just think they are excessive & taken off gross figures, before costs are deducted, etc (eg if you make say £5000 profit on sale, their share is 15%, which is calculated before deducting agents fees, solicitor fees & any other related fees, so they advertise £5k profit but the net figure is a heck of a lot less, I've seen as little as £1.5k down from the advertised £5k). Yes, they are transparent to an extent, but also not so much if you do not delve deeper & only look at the headline figures. That puts me off! Fees are not clear. In one place their site says they deduct 10% of the monthly rent. In the ts&cs it is 12.5% plus VAT. Nowhere can I find what is included in this charge. Some costs are insurable, but then it says the SPV can borrow money to cover these costs. Will these be deducted from the gain before they take their 15%? Who knows. Also I don't like the shareholders needing 85%+ share of vote to delay the sale at the end of the period. That looks so high as to make changing the term almost impossible. Without registering I see two properties on the website both for two years, which with the 5% up front fee seems too short a time. Do you see more if you register?
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Post by oldnick on Jan 31, 2015 13:45:12 GMT
Does no-one else mind these childish names? The 'z' in Assetz (I assume it's just a 'cool s'?) genuinely delayed me depositing for months... And I'm younger than most on this board (if the survey was accurate) - but maybe that's why I find it offensive! You've hit the nail on the head - after a certain age you no longer worry about being seen to be cool, which gives an edge over those who are more influenced by image. It was the people and their intent that attracted me to AC - didn't give the name a second thought, other than that it made an internet search for them quicker. Not trying to be smug - I'd much rather be young :-)
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jan 31, 2015 14:18:09 GMT
...other than that it made an internet search for them quicker...
This is probably the point, Next PLC can get away with it but one suspects only by being very big and spending a lot of money.
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Jan 31, 2015 14:24:27 GMT
Does no-one else mind these childish names? The 'z' in Assetz (I assume it's just a 'cool s'?) genuinely delayed me depositing for months... And I'm younger than most on this board (if the survey was accurate) - but maybe that's why I find it offensive! Strange, that never occurred to me in the 10 months I've known them. Actually, my immediate impression was a large German financial institution called Allianz. That gave me extra reassurance, before I realized they were different .
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Jan 31, 2015 19:27:56 GMT
Does no-one else mind these childish names? The 'z' in Assetz (I assume it's just a 'cool s'?) genuinely delayed me depositing for months... And I'm younger than most on this board (if the survey was accurate) - but maybe that's why I find it offensive! I'm with you. It puts me off. It took me an extra month to join AC. Any business needs a name which will be found instantly on t'internet, the z renders the name unique and that helps.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Feb 1, 2015 10:36:39 GMT
Steerpike and shimself you are probably right. I hadn't really thought about the internet search thing.
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Post by propertymoose on Feb 1, 2015 13:59:23 GMT
Hi all
Thanks to everyone for their comments about Property Moose. I am the CEO and hopefully I can help answer any questions and clear up any confusion. The Property Moose site is constantly being updated and improved and we regularly take member feedback and turn it into new features on the site.
I will try and answer some of the questions below.
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Post by propertymoose on Feb 1, 2015 14:00:51 GMT
Our fees are as follows: 1. A 5% upfront fundraising fee. This is zero rated for VAT purposes and is taken with full transparency from the overall fund required. For example, on a £100,000 raise (£99k property and £1k costs), we raise £105,000 with £5,000 being our fee. This helps to cover our costs in structuring the deal and our ongoing platform and compliance costs. We don't make any money from this 5%. 2. We outsource the rental management of properties to local partners as they are the experts and can get the properties let quickly and for the optimum rent. We charge 10% of gross rent (plus VAT) for management fees which is used to pay these local agents. 3. We budget/predict for a range of other costs. For example we budget a standard 1.5% plus VAT estate agent's charge when the property is sold. If, in fact, we get a better deal, the savings are passed back to our investors . For example, we recently finished a renovation where we had been quoted a fixed fee for the work. The final price came in £200 below budget and the savings will be paid back to the investors as a return of capital with their first rental payment. I note that the T&Cs states that rental fees are 12.5% plus VAT. This is out of date as we reduced the rental fees recently which you can see on the finance tab of each property. Thank you for pointing this out - it will be fixed on Monday. 3. Finally, we make our profit at the end of the investment terms through a share in the net rise in property value ('profit'). We take 15% of the net profit after deducting any sale costs but before any corporation tax in the SPV. This is due to the fact the 15% profit fee is contractual so is an allowable deduction for corporation tax purposes - reducing the amount of tax payable in the SPV. The fee is zero rated for VAT purposes too. As an example, if the property makes £10,000 profit and there are £2,000 of costs, our fee would be 15% of £8,000 leaving £6,800 subject to corporation tax giving £5,440 to the investors. You can see this calculation on the finance tab of each investment and more on the process here - goo.gl/s3ZGx7It is worth mentioning that we also pay 3% interest (p.a.) on any investment in a property. So, if you invested £5,000 in a property that was brand new on the site, we would pay you 3% gross interest on the £5,000, calculated daily, from the 3rd day after your investment (when we receive the money in our account) until the day we complete the purchase of the property (not when it is fully funded). This is designed to give investors a return from day 1, encourage people to invest in properties early on and ensure that we are incentivised to get properties completed as quickly and efficiently as possible. We currently have two properties open for funding with a two year investment time-scale, and a pipeline of further opportunities, some of which will have longer time-scales, to follow.
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