angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jun 19, 2024 16:43:54 GMT
I think also because Russia historically has been involved in wars that have involved terrible devastation they also like the idea of having a strong leader who can defeat potential invaders. Russia is of course a vast country with immense resources and Russians know people (like the imperialist US) would like to get their hands on their wealth. The US has done some pretty stupid things in its endless pursuit of money and power over the years, but the attempt to use Ukraine as a proxy to do a "Yugoslavia" on Russia is probably the most dangerous by far - it will almost certainly lead to the destruction of Ukraine and possibly the World. Aaaawwww it was all going so so well until a scuffed shot in the second half led to a defeat of reality. Post match summary: The first half was on good form with some lively analysis. What ever you think of Putin, he is extremely popular in Russia and is fairly popular internationally. He has a lot more popular support than the vast majority of leaders in the West. Obviously by our standards having a leader who is corrupt and extremely ruthless is a negative, but what most "mono-polar people" do not take into account is how people from other cultures see things differently from themselves. Most Russians seem perfectly happy that Putin is extremely rich by skimming off the vast wealth of Russia and do not seem to be at all worried he might have tolchoked a few people.The second half got off to a poor start with a truism, I think also because Russia historically has been involved in wars that have involved terrible devastation they also like the idea of having a strong leader who can defeat potential invaders.
Hope for a recovery of form was dampened by a poor shot wide of the post Russia is of course a vast country with immense resources and Russians know people (like the imperialist US) would like to get their hands on their wealth. The US has done some pretty stupid things in its endless pursuit of money and power over the years, but the attempt to use Ukraine as a proxy to do a "Yugoslavia" on Russia is probably the most dangerous by far
And immediately after by a straight red card for a wild overstatement which left the disappointed fans with their heads in their hands. it will almost certainly lead to the destruction of Ukraine and possibly the World.
Basically to people such as yourself war is like a football match - you choose a side based on where you live and watch someone else do the playing/fighting while you drink beer and follow your instinct to be part of the herd. Of course things would be very different if you were on the front line with the shells landing all around you and the missiles and jets flying over head. Thing with this war is we might all be on the front line/pitch at some point*... ![](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--o8CU3tUa--%2Fc_scale%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_80%2Cw_800%2F19dyh5bg1pazrjpg.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=0396436727c6e0fd2641d525ac173e8c62473dd6fb918ae500cc155930598cff&ipo=images) * - Apart from the psychopathic ruling elite who will be in their luxury bomb shelters watching us all burn
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k6
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Post by k6 on Jun 19, 2024 18:57:12 GMT
Aaaawwww it was all going so so well until a scuffed shot in the second half led to a defeat of reality. Post match summary: The first half was on good form with some lively analysis. What ever you think of Putin, he is extremely popular in Russia and is fairly popular internationally. He has a lot more popular support than the vast majority of leaders in the West. Obviously by our standards having a leader who is corrupt and extremely ruthless is a negative, but what most "mono-polar people" do not take into account is how people from other cultures see things differently from themselves. Most Russians seem perfectly happy that Putin is extremely rich by skimming off the vast wealth of Russia and do not seem to be at all worried he might have tolchoked a few people.The second half got off to a poor start with a truism, I think also because Russia historically has been involved in wars that have involved terrible devastation they also like the idea of having a strong leader who can defeat potential invaders.
Hope for a recovery of form was dampened by a poor shot wide of the post Russia is of course a vast country with immense resources and Russians know people (like the imperialist US) would like to get their hands on their wealth. The US has done some pretty stupid things in its endless pursuit of money and power over the years, but the attempt to use Ukraine as a proxy to do a "Yugoslavia" on Russia is probably the most dangerous by far
And immediately after by a straight red card for a wild overstatement which left the disappointed fans with their heads in their hands. it will almost certainly lead to the destruction of Ukraine and possibly the World.
Basically to people such as yourself war is like a football match - you choose a side based on where you live and watch someone else do the playing/fighting while you drink beer and follow your instinct to be part of the herd. Of course things would be very different if you were on the front line with the shells landing all around you and the missiles and jets flying over head. Thing with this war is we might all be on the front line/pitch at some point*... ![](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--o8CU3tUa--%2Fc_scale%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_80%2Cw_800%2F19dyh5bg1pazrjpg.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=0396436727c6e0fd2641d525ac173e8c62473dd6fb918ae500cc155930598cff&ipo=images) * - Apart from the psychopathic ruling elite who will be in their luxury bomb shelters watching us all burn And we back if more scaremongering. Does your russian comrades have the same thoughts ? oh no sorry , they not , they just came to Ukraine to earn some money while killing and raping ppl . I understand, its hard time. Will all need some extra cash here and there ( disgusting )
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 19, 2024 19:09:40 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 19, 2024 20:52:58 GMT
I'm surprised there's been no mention here of yesterday's Vlad-Kim love-in. ![](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2020_29/3327061/200428-kim-jong-un-mc-10012.JPG) Oops, sorry, wrong pic. Do you really think its a bad thing for the US president to meet its enemies from time to time ?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 19, 2024 20:55:53 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 19, 2024 20:59:21 GMT
Yes - what else was he doing ?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 19, 2024 21:11:13 GMT
I'm surprised there's been no mention here of yesterday's Vlad-Kim love-in. ![](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2020_29/3327061/200428-kim-jong-un-mc-10012.JPG) Oops, sorry, wrong pic. Do you really think its a bad thing for the US president to meet its enemies from time to time ? Really Michael, you're the last person I would expect to see using a gender neutral pronoun ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) .
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 21, 2024 19:37:23 GMT
Farage says the war is Putin's fault but the west provoked him. I agree entirely. No other politician would risk their own voting base but Farage always seems comfortable saying it how it is rather than what he thinks we want to hear. I'm sure a good proportion of his natural voters would find the statement troubling and it will be interesting to see what happens to his support - I suspect it will only grow. Incidentally, Starmer is the exact opposite in this regard - he absolutely will say anything he thinks we want to hear. What I would like to see (one day!) is someone with Farage's refreshing integrity and honesty but with policies closer to the centre. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cldd44zv3kpo
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k6
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Post by k6 on Jun 22, 2024 6:50:14 GMT
Farage says the war is Putin's fault but the west provoked him. I agree entirely. No other politician would risk their own voting base but Farage always seems comfortable saying it how it is rather than what he thinks we want to hear. I'm sure a good proportion of his natural voters would find the statement troubling and it will be interesting to see what happens to his support - I suspect it will only grow. Incidentally, Starmer is the exact opposite in this regard - he absolutely will say anything he thinks we want to hear. What I would like to see (one day!) is someone with Farage's refreshing integrity and honesty but with policies closer to the centre. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cldd44zv3kpoFarage is a russian asset and he will get rewarded. Its a business. I'm still disbelieved this man is being taken into consideration as a potential politician by some. This men helped pushed brexit , which did not worked in favor for UK nor for EU but worked out pretty well for mr.putler.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 22, 2024 6:51:36 GMT
Assume that NATO / the EU / the "West" didn't exist. Putin would still have invaded Ukraine, and for three reasons:-
1. He considers it to be part of his domain, and it's his right to with his domain as he wishes. 2. Because Ukraine dared to want to be "not Russia". 3. Because a successful Ukraine held up a mirror to Russia and in doing so was a threat to Putin and his regime (note - not a threat to Russia).
Nigel "sovereignty" Farage has a strange blind spot when it comes to... sovereignty.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 22, 2024 7:11:20 GMT
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jun 22, 2024 9:28:41 GMT
Farage says the war is Putin's fault but the west provoked him. I agree entirely. No other politician would risk their own voting base but Farage always seems comfortable saying it how it is rather than what he thinks we want to hear. I'm sure a good proportion of his natural voters would find the statement troubling and it will be interesting to see what happens to his support - I suspect it will only grow. Incidentally, Starmer is the exact opposite in this regard - he absolutely will say anything he thinks we want to hear. What I would like to see (one day!) is someone with Farage's refreshing integrity and honesty but with policies closer to the centre. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cldd44zv3kpo
Farage is certainly one of the more perceptive politicians in the UK, if you look back at his speeches when he was an MEP he often warned the EU about the dangers of provoking Russia. Starmer is in the position he is in simply because he is an obedient servant of the ruling elite and will do what he is told * - which in the UK means doing what the US imperialists want. What the EU doesnt seem to understand is the US does not give a damn about them any more than it gives a damn about Ukraine.
* - Although I do believe Starmer is less dangerous than say Cameron simply because his party still has an anti-war element to its support base and party members. In my opinion Tories are less likely to think twice about throwing British troops into being slaughtered by the Russians especially if they thought they would get a pay off from it.
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 22, 2024 9:37:41 GMT
Regarding Farages slavish repetition of the talking point the Kremlin has found works best in the west, the nonsense of this point is laid bare by the fact that Nato expansion nor EU expansion is not mentioned as a reason for the necessity of Russia reunifying with Ukraine in On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians Which was the essay published by Putin six months before and during the build up to the attack on Ukraine. The reason given is not nato, not the EU, "gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together—in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians"www.en.kremlin.ru/misc/66182
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 22, 2024 10:05:38 GMT
Putin DID raise NATO expansion as a "direct threat"... Sixteen years ago. No mention of the EU. The context was the US installing defensive missiles in Europe, ostensibly protecting against Iran. www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/04/nato.russiaHow many countries have joined NATO in that time? 2009 - Albania, Croatia 2017 - Montenegro 2020 - North Macedonia 2023 - Finland 2024 - Sweden www.nato.int/cps/uk/natohq/topics_52044.htmOnly one of them borders Russia. Finland, and they joined as a direct result of the Ukrainian invasion. I doubt Putin's terribly bothered about three left-over bits of Yugoslavia and definitely not about Albania. How many EU members border Russia? Three - Finland (1995), Latvia (2004), Estonia (2004) - and one EEA/EFTA - Norway (founder of EEA in 1994, joined EFTA 1960). How many EU candidates border Russia? One - Ukraine, who only applied after the Russian invasion. Yes, of course the history is longer than that - Yushchenko first stated it as a goal for the country in 2005, shortly after his election win, and around the time he became seriously ill, almost certainly as a result of poisoning by Russian agents. The EU held a vote on 13th January 2005 to work with Ukraine towards membership (yes, three years before Putin didn't mention it...) The vote was 467 for, 19 against (of 732, so 246 absentions). Farage was an MEP at the time. Was he one of those voting against? He was not. He couldn't be bothered to be present for the vote, despite having been present on each of the previous three days. www.europarl.europa.eu/mepatt/leg6/4525.pdf
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 22, 2024 10:42:51 GMT
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