brianlom1
Member of DD Central
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Posts: 398
Likes: 412
|
Post by brianlom1 on Apr 19, 2016 20:45:38 GMT
I was shocked to see the new Ts & Cs today:
6.2 We do not:
6.2.1 provide any advice or express any opinion to either prospective Lenders or Borrowers on the question of whether to enter into any loan arrangement;
6.2.2 make any representation or give any opinion as to the credit worthiness of a Borrower;
6.2.3 make any representation or give any opinion as to the accuracy of the online credit check of our Credit Checking Agency.
6.3 A Lender must form their own opinion regarding the creditworthiness of a Borrower and undertake its own research, analysis and assessment of each Borrower for each loan, and where appropriate, seek its own independent financial advice.
6.4 Whilst rebuildingsociety.com, through the Website, does make available certain information about a Borrower, with the intention of helping Lenders make a decision about whether to advance a loans to the Borrower, rebuildingsociety.com makes no representation that such information is complete accurate and not misleading, and rebuildingsociety.com shall have no liability whatsoever for any information supplied through the Website about a Borrower, nor any opinion expressed or implied in relation to the creditworthiness of a Borrower (in the form of a risk rating or otherwise), which proves to be inaccurate, incomplete or misleading.
6.5 Whilst the Borrower may grant Security to the Lender, rebuildingsociety.com does not guarantee that the Borrower will repay the loan and gives no undertaking whatsoever to the Lender that the Security will ensure that the Borrower repays the loan. The risk of non-payment should be taken into account by the Lender in deciding whether to make a loan, and in deciding the interest rate they wish to charge for their loan.
Moreover, lenders are blocked from entering the website unless they accept the new Ts & Cs.
This looks like a deliberate attempt to prevent lenders from taking legal action against ReBS following their inability to vet borrowers correctly.
Brian
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Apr 19, 2016 22:35:49 GMT
So we are encouraged to ring the borrower ourselves and collect our own information then?? 8>.
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 20, 2016 7:32:22 GMT
Very good T&C. They make it clear to me that I should not engage with ReBS in any way whatsoever as a lender. Case closed.
|
|
SteveT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,874
Likes: 7,919
|
Post by SteveT on Apr 20, 2016 7:54:30 GMT
Very good T&C. They make it clear to me that I should not engage with ReBS in any way whatsoever as a lender. Case closed. [Mod hat off] Indeed. Reading this, I am ever more thankful that I sprinted for the exit on 1st January. Happily I've now just £100 of my original stake money still to withdraw; anything I manage to get back beyond this (and it won't be much) will be a welcome and unexpected bonus. IMO, either ReBS needs to transition towards the AC model (asset-backed SME lending) or else I fear for its future, as I do for the other small unsecured SME lending platforms. Only with the market scale and SM liquidity of Foetid Corpses can one play the "numbers game" and have any confidence that returns from performing loans will outweigh the inevitable losses that unsecured SME lending entails.
|
|
Steerpike
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 1,687
|
Post by Steerpike on Apr 20, 2016 8:08:39 GMT
Don't close the door, I'm right behind you, just got an obstinate £350 to shift.
Hoping to net a sub £200 loss on my ReBS adventure.
|
|
|
Post by rebsrep on Apr 20, 2016 12:25:09 GMT
Firstly we are not unique in having T&C's like this for example: FC: Clauses 1.2 , 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6 Assetz: “Whilst Assetz SME Capital offers support to the Lending Members by way of the provision of credit reports as part of the lending process and various manual and automatic loan selection facilities, no charge is payable by the Lending Members for these services and they are offered without obligation or liability on the part of Assetz SME Capital. The Assetz Capital Companies accept no responsibility and disclaim all liability for any information about a Borrower made available to Lending Members through the Website or otherwise.” Clauses 17.1, 17.2, 17.3 Secondly: As mentioned elsewhere on this forum and on our own site, all our legal documents, including Terms and Conditions, Loan agreements and security documents are reviewed twice a year and updated in line with regulatory, industry and legal changes that have come into force. We also take the opportunity during these reviews to try and incorporate suggestions and changes proposed by users of the platform, most of which are received from investors. The clauses that you have pointed out in your post, brianlom1 , were part of our original terms and conditions on the site, and these have not undergone any recent changes. Clauses similar to these can be found on almost every other p2p platform and are regarded as best practice. I’d like to take the opportunity to explain why these clauses are as they are. 6.2.1 Providing such advice is a regulated activity, one for which we do not have regulatory permissions. P2P platforms are not able to provide advice on investment or debt. 6.2.2 We provide an indicative A-C rating, however this is only intended to be informative, and investors must make their own lending decisions, as is the nature of P2P. 6.2.3 We use third party credit checking agencies to inform the A-C rating, we cannot be responsible for the information that they report. We take care to use only reputable providers so as to reduce any risk. 6.3 P2P platforms operate under Article 36H, and are not a managed fund or investment advisor. Lending is done at the decision of the lender. The platform allows lenders to choose to whom they want to lend and when they want to lend and allows them to set risk adjusted rates and determine the amount they would like to lend on each loan. 6.4 We take steps to verify the information provided by the borrowers during the application processes and where information is not forthcoming or inconclusive, applications will, and have been rejected. We cannot ever be 100% sure that what we are being told by the borrower is true and accurate, but take reasonable steps to verify all information where possible. 6.5 SME’s are affected by a number or factors that affect their ability to make repayments. We mitigate the risk of businesses not repaying by taking some form of security on each and every loan so that we may have an avenue to get past the limited liability nature of the businesses to try and secure payment. We cannot guarantee borrowers will make repayments as we unfortunately cannot control the factors that impact upon them. Thirdly: There was a glitch on the site which prevented users that do not accept the terms form accessing their dashboards, this is to be fixed shortly and we can only apologise for this oversite. Fourthly: We have taken care to listen to the suggestions of lenders and incorporate these into the new terms and loan agreements. Lenders wishes were the main influence for the increased powers in clause 8 of the loan agreement. This clause arguably giving us a higher degree of assertion to act in the interest of lenders where the situation may call for it, than any other platform. We have sought to openly inform and educate lenders of the new changes and hope that this will largely be well received. We have also written a blog post about the changes: www.rebuildingsociety.com/updated-loan-conditions-and-terms-and-conditions/Regards Rebs
|
|
brianlom1
Member of DD Central
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Posts: 398
Likes: 412
|
Post by brianlom1 on Apr 21, 2016 8:35:12 GMT
ReBS,
I could take issue with much of what you state but the only point that matters to me now is that you are preventing me from accessing my money. I do not accept that this was due to a 'glitch on the site', IMHO this was a deliberate attempt to impose new Ts & Cs (the only option offered is 'We have updated our Terms and Conditions, please review and agree to proceed').
Brian
|
|
brianlom1
Member of DD Central
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Posts: 398
Likes: 412
|
Post by brianlom1 on Apr 21, 2016 9:56:34 GMT
Quick update:
ReBS website has been updated, it now offers the option to decline Ts & Cs (which I understand means I can access my account but I cannot make new investments) :-)
|
|
shimself
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,562
Likes: 1,171
|
Post by shimself on Apr 21, 2016 10:09:26 GMT
Firstly we are not unique in having T&C's like this........ 6.2.2 We provide an indicative A-C rating, however this is only intended to be informative, and investors must make their own lending decisions, as is the nature of P2P. ..... Yes everybody has T&Cs which seek to exculpate the platform for any loans which go bad BUT the A B C rating sure feels like advice, and furthermore is probably misleading based on results so far, why don't you just drop it. There's a decent level of crowd due diligence, why bother?
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Apr 21, 2016 11:46:11 GMT
Doesn't it constrain the upper limit of the rates you can bid at, or am I confusing them with some other places?
|
|
|
Post by rebsrep on Apr 21, 2016 12:20:38 GMT
Doesn't it constrain the upper limit of the rates you can bid at, or am I confusing them with some other places? yes the A B C rating sets the starting bid rate.
|
|