toast
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Post by toast on Apr 27, 2018 15:13:18 GMT
The problem with allowing a premium on the secondary market is that value is sucked out of the system by traders at the expense of genuine lenders. (Traders make money buying and selling, but this means there is less money made by genuine long-term lenders, who then have to pay a premium for the more desirable loans to get them from traders.) At present you can buy something on the secondary market at par, easily re-investing returned interest or other funds as they become available, and be confident that the loans are, defaults aside, good value. But as soon as there is selling at a premium the big boys with very deep pockets will buy up the best loans, and then try to unload them shortly afterwards at a premium. Personally I'm in favour of a fair-for-all system that gives lenders a good return on their investment without too much workload, borrowers access to finance at fair rates, and MoneyThing a reasonable profit. I guess the counter-argument is that such traders provide liquidity. If the price they're asking is too high, then just don't buy those loan parts. And because MT are good at applying initial bid restrictions there is usually no problem in acquiring part of new offerings. That makes it hard(er) for BH with a trader mindset being able to buy up everything view a view to sell it on at a premium.
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Post by webbski9 on Apr 28, 2018 7:57:38 GMT
Elliot,yes,I have tried most of the platforms you mention.I like Moneything,always have, but they ( and particularly Lendy) have a MAJOR problem...nothing is moving...Secondary or Primary.The reason Ablrate succeed is not only that they provide a REAL SM,but it is a major reason .Its comforting to know you can always realise your investment.Thats my point.
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Post by webbski9 on Apr 28, 2018 7:58:09 GMT
Toast ..very good point.
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johni
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Post by johni on Apr 28, 2018 9:13:59 GMT
Elliot,yes,I have tried most of the platforms you mention.I like Moneything,always have, but they ( and particularly Lendy) have a MAJOR problem...nothing is moving...Secondary or Primary.The reason Ablrate succeed is not only that they provide a REAL SM,but it is a major reason .Its comforting to know you can always realise your investment.Thats my point. MT have had a quick succession of defaults which made the secondary market go from famine to glut. P2P is not and should never be treated like an instant access account. If you invest in a loan for 12 months duration this is a minimum, with development and bridging loans I add 50% time frame to get my money back. As has been said it's about choice if I want a variable priced secondary market I invest in other platforms. With MT I invest because it is a fixed price secondary market. As well as being well run and have excellent communication.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Apr 28, 2018 11:36:27 GMT
I like MT just fine, but I wouldn't say no to being offered some of the current SM-glut loans at a reasonable discount (a few %). I mean YOU don't have to offer them, and YOU certainly don't have to buy them, but I'd quite like to (and if YOU offered I might still buy, even though I know you don't approve) - I struggle to see the downside, except it might add to the difficulty of floating new loans at par.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2018 13:40:04 GMT
One thing I do like is how easy it is to buy into MT loans at the moment. I never expected to sell up suddenly but right now I can buy all I want. Once MT gets its loans back under control this will stop.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 28, 2018 13:53:35 GMT
I like MT just fine, but I wouldn't say no to being offered some of the current SM-glut loans at a reasonable discount (a few %). I mean YOU don't have to offer them, and YOU certainly don't have to buy them, but I'd quite like to (and if YOU offered I might still buy, even though I know you don't approve) - I struggle to see the downside, except it might add to the difficulty of floating new loans at par.it might make the new loans more popular to have a better functioning SM
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Post by webbski9 on Apr 30, 2018 8:26:59 GMT
Gentlemen.There is no downside to a "real" SM. As is quoted above...no-one HAS to sell or buy with discounts and, lets not forget, with premiums..yes,it still happens, go look on Ablrate
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Post by eascogo on May 2, 2018 13:30:57 GMT
The total available on the SM has been nearly static over the last few weeks. The forthcoming repayment of Presbury will, I hope, see some return of confidence. I expect that SM availability will reduce as a result. Out of curiosity I summed up the last 10 transactions shown on the website for the large loans crowding the SM as of today around midday. The confirms that the scale of transactions is very modest, ie the SM is largely static. For some entries the oldest transactions are many days old. The highest transaction figure is for the Wigan Hotel -- I recorded the total on the SM in one single entry. Note that one transaction is for £5775. Nevertheless I take the total figure to reflect higher confidence in that loan. The self-storage loan also registers an above-average transaction figure, presumably this is because of the expected imminent repayment (but see latest, no so positive, comments about this loan on this forum). What I find puzzling is the discrepancy in the percentages for sale of the Newcastle-u-Lyme loans. The main loan has 35.8% offered for sale but the additional advance has only 9.56%. Given the identical risk I would not have expected such a large difference. SM activity spreadsheet.ods (19.79 KB)
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archie
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Post by archie on May 2, 2018 14:06:00 GMT
There was a fair bit being bought and sold this morning but those loans don't have a queue currently.
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Post by eascogo on May 2, 2018 14:18:11 GMT
There was a fair bit being bought and sold this morning but those loans don't have a queue currently. Yes, agreed, but I was mainly interested in the loans stuck on the SM for many weeks. So I ignored activity for popular loans that are gobbled up instantly. Sampling every loans not on the SM would have been rather time-consuming.
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elsee
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Retired:D
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Post by elsee on May 2, 2018 14:43:39 GMT
The total available on the SM has been nearly static over the last few weeks. The forthcoming repayment of Presbury will, I hope, see some return of confidence. I expect that SM availability will reduce as a result. Out of curiosity I summed up the last 10 transactions shown on the website for the large loans crowding the SM as of today around midday. The confirms that the scale of transactions is very modest, ie the SM is largely static. For some entries the oldest transactions are many days old. The highest transaction figure is for the Wigan Hotel -- I recorded the total on the SM in one single entry. Note that one transaction is for £5775. Nevertheless I take the total figure to reflect higher confidence in that loan. The self-storage loan also registers an above-average transaction figure, presumably this is because of the expected imminent repayment (but see latest, no so positive, comments about this loan on this forum). What I find puzzling is the discrepancy in the percentages for sale of the Newcastle-u-Lyme loans. The main loan has 35.8% offered for sale but the additional advance has only 9.56%. Given the identical risk I would not have expected such a large difference. I'm over my limit in W***n, N*wc*s*l*, and all the others with large static queues. I suspect most of us are. I was happy to pick up some other bits that appeared today though.
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carolus
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Post by carolus on May 2, 2018 14:56:19 GMT
What I find puzzling is the discrepancy in the percentages for sale of the Newcastle-u-Lyme loans. The main loan has 35.8% offered for sale but the additional advance has only 9.56%. Given the identical risk I would not have expected such a large difference. Part of this might be down to a sort of feedback loop. If someone wants to buy into the loan, they will prefer the advance with the smaller queue, since if they need to sell they may be able to do so more quickly. This in turn keeps the queue size for the second tranche down, etcetera. Another factor that occurs to me is that since the second advance is so much smaller than the main loan, a purchase of a fixed amount will reduce the size of the queue by a much larger percentage for second advance than first.
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nw99
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Post by nw99 on May 2, 2018 16:12:42 GMT
Gentlemen.There is no downside to a "real" SM. As is quoted above...no-one HAS to sell or buy with discounts and, lets not forget, with premiums..yes,it still happens, go look on Ablrate Best secondary market by miles is Ablrate . Others have not grasped it at all ..
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad on May 2, 2018 16:51:27 GMT
Gentlemen.There is no downside to a "real" SM. As is quoted above...no-one HAS to sell or buy with discounts and, lets not forget, with premiums..yes,it still happens, go look on Ablrate Best secondary market by miles is Ablrate . Others have not grasped it at all .. I had an substantial investment with UK Bond Network in D****x Software. I didn't like how I saw D****x Software performing, so put my investment up for sale at 5% discount, and sold it quickly, which was a great relief! I'm all in favour of a flexible SM such as Ablrate.
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