baz657
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Post by baz657 on Dec 4, 2014 16:34:30 GMT
Commercial Mortgage In Sheffield (9257) was due to finish this afternoon. It did finish but only had £99,520 out of the required £110,220 pledged. There were some Q & A comments which implied that FC had given a A+ status to a possibly insolvent company (surely not!) which may be a reason they didn't run in at the last minute and bail this one out?
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Post by davee39 on Dec 4, 2014 17:01:42 GMT
Commercial Mortgage In Sheffield (9257) was due to finish this afternoon. It did finish but only had £99,520 out of the required £110,220 pledged. There were some Q & A comments which implied that FC had given a A+ status to a possibly insolvent company (surely not!) which may be a reason they didn't run in at the last minute and bail this one out? Was this the one offering 7.5% for 36 Months? I'm sure it will make a comeback at a more appropriate rate one the accounts have been polished.
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baz657
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Post by baz657 on Dec 4, 2014 17:10:11 GMT
Was this the one offering 7.5% for 36 Months? That was the one, using a 15 year amortisation profile. They'll have to add another 0.5% on top of everything else as the cashback has dropped now.
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Dec 5, 2014 23:56:58 GMT
Was this the one offering 7.5% for 36 Months? That was the one, using a 15 year amortisation profile. They'll have to add another 0.5% on top of everything else as the cashback has dropped now. Looking at recent loan offering 9446, it appears that your wish is their command : Property loan A+, 18 months, 8.5%. Seems to be filling well so far. I might even have a small nibble myself. 0.5% higher on the rate for the full duration seems to roughly compensate for 0.5% loss of splashback for this length of loan. Higher rate taxpayers might not be so well off.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 6, 2014 10:11:58 GMT
Cannot see 9446. Do you mean 9448? That is a property development loan and not a commercial mortgage. It does seem they are trying to up the rate by 0.5% and decrease the cash back by the same, which would improve Festive Cheer's net fee to 3.5%. Trying this on a small loan. 1.5% cash back over 18m is like 1% over a year. Not so good, but the SM has been shifting in strange ways this week so maybe. On 9333, a third tranche of a 35m commercial mortgage, they have continued the 8.5% of previous tranches but reduced the cash back to 1.5%. That will be a real test - reduced Autobidders and manual bidders already holding with the 2%.
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Dec 6, 2014 10:21:40 GMT
Cannot see 9446. Do you mean 9448? That is a property development loan and not a commercial mortgage. It does seem they are trying to up the rate by 0.5% and decrease the cash back by the same, which would improve Festive Cheer's net fee to 3.5%. Trying this on a small loan. 1.5% cash back over 18m is like 1% over a year. Not so good, but the SM has been shifting in strange ways this week so maybe. Yes, sorry I was thinking of 9448, typing finger must have been tired. It's quite interesting calculating the relative merits of the various cashback options. Understanding the precise impact on profit after fees and tax is not as trivial as many might imagine, especially if you consider that the cashback could be immediately re-invested.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 6, 2014 11:27:54 GMT
Agreed, fasty. The cash back is important to me because of the tax implications. My assessment spreads the cash back over the term, because it is quite possible that the cash back can not be retained if the loan parts are sold and I think one should be prepared to hold to term. These long commercial mortgages are also more risky because the business itself can fail during the term and we are presumably in it for repayments, not recoveries. Note that 9371, only £200k, has got stuck now that better options are available. These subsequent tranches, where the interest rate is already fixed and FC just reduce the cash back, may well test FC's underwriting fund.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 6, 2014 14:26:13 GMT
Not sure that it is true that the interest rate on later tranches has to match the interest rate on the earlier ones - if the cashback can be twiddled I bet the interest rate can too.
However it can only be a matter of time before Financial Clever decide that yea verily, 1% diversification is not required on A+ or A secured loans, and autobidders should fill their boots to 2% or more (depending on whether there are few enough separate borrowers, and enough autobid money, that this would actually help).
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 6, 2014 16:24:30 GMT
The cash back is just a matter of how FC distributes the 5% fee it receives from the borrower. It is an arrangement outside of the loan agreement. The interest rate is what the borrower pays under the loan contract, and so for the subsequent tranche to have a higher interest rate would affect the deal the borrower gets and the amount paid. If I were a borrower and had negotiated an £x million loan through FC, drawn down in parts, then I would wish to have an up front agreement to guarantee the whole amount at an agreed rate. Financial Contingency will try very hard to get these loans funded at the interest rate agreed, and probably expect the reduction in cash back to increase the amount they carry on the balance sheet for capital lent to borrowers with current multi-tranche programmes uncompleted. They once seemed proud of having some 'skin in the game' - lets hope it does not take an arm and a leg. Agreed Finely Chopped are probably looking for a way out of the diversity rules for Autobidders on property. But many of them probably do not have a clue that they are in property - they were signed up automatically under the general rules rather than being asked. To change they will have to be asked and informed of the risks etc. I am not sure that this platform format is the final property solution for Fixing Creatively. And would you risk an IT development which added much more complex diversity rules for consenting Autobidders?
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 6, 2014 19:11:57 GMT
Yep, but I guess it is possible, if messy, for FC to pay a different interest rate to lenders than the one borrowers pay them? As you say though, probably simpler ways to fix the problem (if there will be one, which I suspect there will .. even new property loans are not filling very fast, never mind 'tranche 2 of N'.). Time for a new platform/company perhaps .. maybe they can spin off the whole loan business at the same time ..
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 8, 2014 19:47:51 GMT
... However it can only be a matter of time before Financial Clever decide that yea verily, 1% diversification is not required on A+ or A secured loans, and autobidders should fill their boots to 2% or more (depending on whether there are few enough separate borrowers, and enough autobid money, that this would actually help). Gross yield 8.9%, annualised return 10.6% (after two years plus), estimated fully diversified return 6.8%. It seems to me that this diversification business is something I must avoid. (Warning - cash back is an addictive drug).
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