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Post by drakeinvestments on Jan 23, 2020 23:43:49 GMT
Evening.
I have totally agreement with everyone in that the IT forced closure of the VIP Forum is very disappointing news.
But going forward I very strongly believe that we need to maintain the same strong challenging content as on the VIP forum with a single central point to allow all the other TC lenders to share the same information. If we start going off on to other Independent forums we will be in danger of all going off in different directions and we will loose the benefit of the more informed postings from the senior knowledgeable contributors that will help us all.
Whilst there may appear be a group of say 15 regular contributors on the old VIP Forum, I have reason to believe that the No of regular "viewers/readers" will be in triple figures - will their be bothered to find & register on this forum - I very much doubt it.
The major point against this forum in my view is that it is not Private and thus accessible to anyone including the likes of the Google Search Engines, hence any contentious loan specific views expressed that we would openly & frankly discuss (sometimes argue!) amongst ourselves remained just that way - Private - and I for one would not feel comfortably making certain points in full knowledge that the 3rd Party "defendant" was able to see what we are discussing about him (ie NG) in full public view - not a good idea....!!!
A very useful tool on the VIP forum was that whilst TC's admin very loosely viewed our comments, on numerous occasions it generated immediate actions from TC's admin when for what ever reason an administration error was made or an incorrect allocation of cash receipts was made that a senior lender would spot - would TC's admin want to monitor this public forum - I very much doubt it.
We are in a run out situation for which unity will be important especially with the several contentious issues of which I am sure we will face many over the next 18 months or so. Finally we will need the history & memory of some of the more senior forum members to guide us........... we are all on this ship together and we must ensure it still floats.
So having been a "watcher" on this forum for over 5 years since the early days of TC's, it has taken me until just now to officially register so I can post the above.
It will be now pretty obvious that my thoughts are that we need to maintain our Loan Specific discussion threads on the official TC's forum site especially as we have been assured as from 31st Jan that ONLY active lenders will now be allowed access (thereby removing the initial need for the VIP forum) for all the above reasons, but if needed us this forum for say more general non-loan specific discussions.
I hope my arguments make logical sense......and yes I know - there is no perfect solution.......
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 24, 2020 7:31:32 GMT
I would think most loan discussions will be about the amount and distribution of recoveries, if the discussions are based on the loan numbers only and the borrower isn't named most could be posted on here. Venting about borrowers could be done on the TC forum if we need to blow off steam!
If useful discussions are going on on the TC forum I expect someone will point it out on here and visa versa.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Jan 24, 2020 13:01:31 GMT
Evening. I have totally agreement with everyone in that the IT forced closure of the VIP Forum is very disappointing news. ... The major point against this forum in my view is that it is not Private and thus accessible to anyone including the likes of the Google Search Engines, hence any contentious loan specific views expressed that we would openly & frankly discuss (sometimes argue!) amongst ourselves remained just that way - Private - and I for one would not feel comfortably making certain points in full knowledge that the 3rd Party "defendant" was able to see what we are discussing about him (ie NG) in full public view - not a good idea....!!! .....I hope my arguments make logical sense......and yes I know - there is no perfect solution....... In absence of the perfect.. the better. A private forum here (as per assetz) which allows more venting and less cens*****ip. For N*G* at least. MRC_London is admin here and a TC investor him(her?)self. My only worry is that proboards (our hosts) have the absolute right to close the forum today with no recourse, and I think no backup, so maybe p2pfrank might be a safer bet
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Jan 24, 2020 15:00:16 GMT
Caveat, I haven’t spoken to any of the other P2PIF team members yet, but I think we could give some consideration to an AC type board. This may be the best option for you here on the P2PIF if you want a TC member restricted private board. We would need some among you prepared to act as gatekeepers, and I’m assuming there aren’t likely to be thousands of members, so once the initial set up has happened there shouldn’t be too much on-going work. Obviously, this needs further consideration and would be dependent on a more detailed discussion, PM me if anyone wants to move it forward.
Disclaimer: I’m not a TC investor as I was ‘warned off’ and decided not to invest primarily by comments made on the P2PIF.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 24, 2020 16:16:01 GMT
there are enough known safe hands on here who are TC investors that could act as (imperfect) gatekeepers I think, by way of concoted questions based around the loan book and prior forum member names. And of course because (with permission) lynnanthony has at least got a list of volunteered email addresses (as a check list) from a portion of the old forum members.
It would be useful if lynnanthony could poll that list to see how many would be interested in moving onto a private membership board here?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 24, 2020 16:56:24 GMT
If you want it to be as safe as the TC forum someone could post a special message or code on the TC forum that has to be quoted to get into the TC private forum on here.
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Post by lynnanthony on Jan 24, 2020 20:16:53 GMT
...
It would be useful if lynnanthony could poll that list to see how many would be interested in moving onto a private membership board here? I have advised all the Armageddon members that this discussion is taking place here. It would be better if they commented here. Keep it all in place.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 24, 2020 20:35:16 GMT
If you want it to be as safe as the TC forum someone could post a special message or code on the TC forum that has to be quoted to get into the TC private forum on here. If the consensus is for a private board on this forum I would be willing to support that. I'd even assist with moderation if required. I think your proposed verification method should be sufficient, if the special message or code is posted only after: (1) the end of the month, and (2) TC have confirmed to one of us that all non-investors' access has indeed been withdrawn. Most of the on-boarding work would (if TC stick to their timetable) need to be done some time in February. I will be on holiday from the middle of the month, so I won't be in a position to help with that.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 24, 2020 21:19:08 GMT
Posting a single supposedly secret password on the TC forum is not massively safe. It’d eventually get out that if you say “abracadabra“ you can get on to the p2pIF forum. Updating the secret password each month is marginally better. It’d be quite a bit of work but it’d be better for each TC alias applicant to be given their own private key, as it were, and they then prove they are TC members with control of that TC Alias by making their key public in a TC post under the TC-alias owning that key. If TC members on the TC forum chose to share a private code it probably means any attempt at a more private place will fail, or at least will not be truly private. Likewise however individual lenders are confirmed if they chose to share there is no control.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 25, 2020 2:09:16 GMT
Nothing’s foolproof and beyond breach. Or that’s what Jeff keeps ranting on about to me in our WhatsApp exchanges. But if that means a TC private forum on here is going to a very minimal effort to safeguard membership to bonafides then I’ll have issues posting my views on such a forum. Can’t stop others posting. Might even join to read, but I’d be quite wary of the whole exercise and whether it’ll help, hinder or undermine lenders’ interests. For example, TC staff, sponsors and borrowers? could have access to the TC forum. A few might be lenders too, but if they had to post their unique key under their TC-alias there’d be a disincentive that there’s an audit trail of them getting access to the private forum. The flipside is TC would have a full list of everyone who applied to join the private forum. I’m not sure that’s necessarily bad or all bad. A user specific private-public one factor authentication is a simple but potentially elegant approach. Yes, it’s more cumbersome to onboard. And it’s not as stringent as a multiple factor authentication but I don’t think there are any multiple factor authentication protocols we could use. If we can take what we've been told at face value, then only lenders will have access to the in-app TC forum. Of course, some of them may be borrowers and/or sponsors too, but that was also true of the VIP forum. It seems to me that Greenwood2 's proposed verification process would leave the mooted private board no less secure than the VIP forum was. I would assume that TC staff could also access the in-app TC forum and could therefore get access to the mooted private board. But I don't see any realistic way of preventing that. Nor does it bother me much. I'd be astonished if anything we were to discuss would come as a complete surprise to them. If at any point we felt uncomfortable with that, we could look to move elsewhere. But my working assumption would be that they would follow us, making it pointless anyway.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 25, 2020 8:32:45 GMT
but what about requiring entrants to pass a test based on naming say 3 loans from different borrowers (umm, and different sponsors: a bit harder) from the TC loan book (excepting those from the Armaggedon list). yes there are still holes. And certain sponsors may well have invested in loans from other sponsors. The problem with the TC forum is that all sorts may have had access: some of the more prolific posters were were those that ended up being the dodgiest lenders (well, I can think of 2 anyway...)
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Post by langserve on Jan 25, 2020 13:31:57 GMT
My view is that we should take advantage of the offer to set up a private forum here. Managing such a thing is not the easiest thing in the world and the expertise and time generously on offer is a very significant resource. The e-mail list held at TC Armageddon seems a very reasonable starting point. I agree that it would be smart to ask new members a question about the TC site. This is far from foolproof of course so care still needs to be taken that anything that is really sensitive or vulnerable to legal action is kept private. Personally my opinion is that the TC attitude to confidentiality is far more about saving TC's blushes following awkward questions than protecting lenders' interests.
I don't want to rely on the TC site because:
1. It is too limited and slow
and
2. I lack faith that the moderation will be well done and I also lack faith that there won't be another accident which destroys or resets that forum.
So, yes please let's set up camp here as we have been kindly offered a home.
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Post by topgun on Jan 25, 2020 22:56:47 GMT
Have we lost the 'Dropbox' too? I seem to remember that there was a large section with loads of files, including IPs (Information Packs) for all the historic loans as well as other information. It had a separate VIPxxxx login and password, just to complicate things. Sorry victor I missed your question 2 days ago. The VIP access is still active, with documents section working. Your VIP**** login will work ok. Documents & reports section, view documents, then at bottom of screen -continue to website is one way to view the data.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Jan 26, 2020 14:35:01 GMT
Posting a single supposedly secret password on the TC forum is not massively safe. It’d eventually get out that if you say “abracadabra“ you can get on to the p2pIF forum. Updating the secret password each month is marginally better. It’d be quite a bit of work but it’d be better for each TC alias applicant to be given their own private key, as it were, and they then prove they are TC members with control of that TC Alias by making their key public in a TC post under the TC-alias owning that key. If mrc_london is willing, then just do what they do with the AC private board, whcih is to say once they have the word from on high that you are indeed a pukka genuine investor then some sort of flag is put by your login name which allows you access
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Jan 26, 2020 14:36:57 GMT
I fail to understand why if TC can spend time and energy to remove all registered lenders without assets from the main site, they cannot sort out the hacking of thincats.net forum. Remember couple of years ago exactly the same problem happened, but it did not take their IT gurus long to get it back online. Let's see after 31st Jan how the main site forum works, but in the past it has been very lumpy and not user- friendly. That's because they are lying
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