jnm21
Posts: 441
Likes: 167
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SPV 84
Nov 24, 2017 21:31:06 GMT
Post by jnm21 on Nov 24, 2017 21:31:06 GMT
Yep, sold for more & still didn't make what they predicted! I'm MEGA impressed!
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SPV 84
Nov 24, 2017 23:59:15 GMT
via mobile
jnm21 likes this
Post by propertycalf on Nov 24, 2017 23:59:15 GMT
It's worrying that their willing to shave so much off for themselves.
How little would the investors got back if the buying price was even lower? Doubt they'd take it out of their cut
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Neil_P2PBlog
P2P Blogger
Use @p2pblog to tag me :-)
Posts: 355
Likes: 209
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Post by Neil_P2PBlog on Nov 25, 2017 6:20:32 GMT
My basic calculations:
Final Purchase Price: £163k Less Sales Fees and Legals (£1.5k)
Less Equity Investment (£148.6k - this includes all costs: financing and PM purchase fees, legal, valuation, auction, accounting fees, stamp duty & renovation costs) -------------------------------------------------------- Net Return before PM Profit Share £12.9k
Less PM Profit Share of 15% (£1.9k)
Total Net Return to Investors: £11k Total Equity: £148.6k
Net Return % to Investors = £11k/£148.6k = 7.4% (Over ~6months, NOT the annualised figure)
Have I made any obvious mistakes in this calculation, since it is far from the 3.46% from PM?
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jnm21
Posts: 441
Likes: 167
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SPV 84
Nov 25, 2017 9:14:05 GMT
Post by jnm21 on Nov 25, 2017 9:14:05 GMT
Probably a 'furniture' cost of 6K you missed. I dislike how poor returns are, despise the audacity to try & sell such a blatant failure to live up to predictions as 'fantastic news', not to mention I have zero faith in them to calculate their share of a bar bill, let alone pay out an investment.
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carolus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 204
Likes: 191
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Post by carolus on Nov 25, 2017 12:08:51 GMT
Yes, @jnm21, that's more or less my assumption. I've been on LC to try and find out where the difference has come from, but got the standard "investment team will be in touch", which I presume won't be until some time next week. I expect that you're right though and it's that the renovation costs exceeded the amount raised and so they've generously taken it out of our profits.
I also notice that the line about the purchaser paying more than the bank valued it at suggests that the true value was less than PM's estimated price.
Finally I'd note that PM's incentives for this sort of deal don't actually seem to be aligned with ours - the majority of their take seems to come from the "PM fee" on purchasing the property, rather than the profit share at the end. Unless I've significantly misunderstood, then for them the optimal strategy is really to buy the most expensive property they can crowdfund and then sell it for whatever price they can (do they take any of the hit if the property were to sell for a loss?).
EDIT: Have they really still not fixed the "furniture" field on the website as they promised >6 months ago?
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kaya
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 718
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Post by kaya on Nov 25, 2017 18:47:03 GMT
EDIT: Have they really still not fixed the "furniture" field on the website as they promised >6 months ago?
Why bother? It's easy to shift furniture in and out of a property, as it suits.
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jnm21
Posts: 441
Likes: 167
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SPV 84
Nov 26, 2017 1:16:03 GMT
Post by jnm21 on Nov 26, 2017 1:16:03 GMT
It takes them over 1 full working day (closer to 2) to divvy out the money for SPV81 (even when it is 2 weeks late); would make you wonder do they even have a database? Then again companies could reprint stationery in 6 months (surely more like 12+).
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SPV 84
Nov 26, 2017 11:24:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by propertycalf on Nov 26, 2017 11:24:12 GMT
With the nature of how the payments are usually recieved in dribs and drabs, and the odd mistakes of double payments etc.
It seems to me that they manually pay everybody each month. Probably using some kind of adapted wage paying programme. That's just my guess tho
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SPV 84
Dec 4, 2017 16:41:24 GMT
Post by p2pimpressed on Dec 4, 2017 16:41:24 GMT
It's already been 11 days since funds appeared online on PM portal, however a proper disclosure and calculation to investors to be provided yet. ROI much lower than anticipated and marketed by PM. Surely disappointed.
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shimself
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 1,171
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SPV 84
Dec 4, 2017 20:34:47 GMT
Post by shimself on Dec 4, 2017 20:34:47 GMT
It's already been 11 days since funds appeared online on PM portal, however a proper disclosure and calculation to investors to be provided yet. ROI much lower than anticipated and marketed by PM. Surely disappointed. Exactly, and so I've departed for pastures new, or will that be quagmires new?
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carolus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 204
Likes: 191
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Post by carolus on Dec 7, 2017 17:35:56 GMT
I've just had a response to a query of mine from when this paid out. I'd asked which aspect of their original budget had been incorrect leading to the reduced return on increased sale price. PM confirm that there was a fee charged during the sale that was erroneously passed on to the SPV, and that they will be reimbursing this amount to lenders as soon as possible.
It will be interesting to see how this changes the overall return - if it takes it up to more respectable levels (and above the predicted return) then I might be tempted to continue dipping my toe into buy to sell opportunities that come up in future, despite withdrawing from the BTLs.
This does of course raise the question of how this got past PM in the first place and what process it was that caught it.
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kaya
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 718
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Post by kaya on Dec 8, 2017 14:16:40 GMT
what process it was that caught it. Your query perhaps?!!
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carolus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 204
Likes: 191
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Post by carolus on Dec 8, 2017 15:15:17 GMT
what process it was that caught it. Your query perhaps?!! That was rather my concern! I'd like to think they noticed it whilst producing a nice final summary of the SPV for us, but I fear not.
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kaya
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 718
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Post by kaya on Dec 8, 2017 15:31:21 GMT
Well I can personally testify to the benefit of 'querying' propertymoose figures. My advice to anyone who is troubled by anything is to question them by engaging directly. They do listen and want to improve, I believe, but there is some way to go, as things have been allowed to slip a bit. There needs to be a better alignment of their and our interests.
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SPV 84
Dec 8, 2017 17:57:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by propertycalf on Dec 8, 2017 17:57:00 GMT
Well I can personally testify to the benefit of 'querying' propertymoose figures. My advice to anyone who is troubled by anything is to question them by engaging directly. They do listen and want to improve, I believe, but there is some way to go, as things have been allowed to slip a bit. There needs to be a better alignment of their and our interests. Perhaps with new management we might see positive results
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