Carter
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Post by Carter on Feb 19, 2019 15:46:58 GMT
Frankly, I think some of the comments aimed in your direction are a disgrace. I wonder sometimes if people forget who they lend money to and on what terms. Do you mean the loan terms which were changed? Previously MT worked with every loan being repaid on time, and if an extension was required lenders could decide whether they wished to recommit for whatever the new period was. Lenders always had the option to get their funds back. The point is when loans were taken out the end date was known and fixed, lenders never got stuck in 'Hotel California' loans. I fully understand why MT had to make this change, and I accepted it, but no suggestion should be made that lenders did not know the terms of the loan when it was taken out. In the right circumstances terms change, be it term or in some cases interest rate. I'm afraid you've lost me. This loan has a formal end date of 13/04/19.
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Post by quidsaveblue2003 on Feb 19, 2019 22:10:07 GMT
Thanks for the very detailed updates on this loan.
However, I have a pessimistic feeling on this borrower, and I believe many lenders have the same feeling as mine.
The extensive work left are there, obviously, and the borrower's commentary is quite vague, most of them are not hitting the point but trying to avoid the point.
I apprciate MT's attitude -- “To be clear, our continued support of the borrower is conditional on meeting these criteria and should they fail to meet them we will consider enforcement options. ”。
In my point of view, one of the condition, " The site launches on the 7th March with 80% occupancy" , would NOT happen. Let's wait for see, if this is the case, MT would adefault this loan and start revovering process as they promised above.
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Carter
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Post by Carter on Feb 20, 2019 8:52:09 GMT
I think you need to read that again. MT will consider enforcement, they haven't promised anything. The borrower has stated open by March 7th and therefore MT are quite rightly holding them to that. When they fail to hit the date they'll review again based on progress against all outstanding items. Its in everyone's interests for the build to complete and then refinance. I do hope people don't come on here on the 7th and start demanding this loan be defaulted, that would be rather silly.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Feb 20, 2019 9:21:39 GMT
Indeed. Quite why some on this thread seem to be wanting a Receiver to be appointed whilst the Borrower is still pushing the project forward is totally beyond me. The best (only?) hope of this loan repaying smoothly lies in the place opening (eventually) and then (hopefully) trading profitably so that it can be refinanced away. Were the plug to be pulled before this, what's left is nothing more than an empty warehouse building with some semi-complete internal modifications. The chances of it selling in that state for anything like the sums now owed strike me as slim, and the process undoubtedly would take many months, if not years. In reality, prospects for a decent recovery might hinge on the originally-mooted potential of the building / site for residential conversion / development, and who knows how realistic that really is.
[Disclosure: I avoided this loan from the outset]
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Post by quidsaveblue2003 on Feb 20, 2019 9:27:44 GMT
I did recoganise the word game "considering", Just like I can read all the real meaning behind the vague explaination of the borrower. And surely all the lenders know what is the real situation so far.
No one would like to be "silly", if the the borrower continuiously making the failing promoises, and MT has been relaxing sitting on it, for almost a year, ignoring all the alarming signals.
It is interesting you pointed out the offical ending date to us, but this is NOT the excuse we should do nothing with it, and thanks for demanding us do not ask for defalt on 7th March. The borrower has already lose his credibility during the past year, as well as MT sharing this in a certain extent. I do not mind another surprise.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Feb 20, 2019 9:34:46 GMT
No one would like to be "silly", if the the borrower continuiously making the failing promoises, and MT has been relaxing sitting on it, for almost a year, ignoring all the alarming signals. I count 27 MT updates on this loan over calendar year 2018, roughly one every two weeks. "Relaxing sitting on it"??!! Are you sure you're cut out for P2P lending and took proper account of the myriad risk warnings before committing your funds?
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad on Feb 20, 2019 9:56:03 GMT
Indeed. Quite why some on this thread seem to be wanting a Receiver to be appointed whilst the Borrower is still pushing the project forward is totally beyond me. The best (only?) hope of this loan repaying smoothly lies in the place opening (eventually) and then (hopefully) trading profitably so that it can be refinanced away. Were the plug to be pulled before this, what's left is nothing more than an empty warehouse building with some semi-complete internal modifications. The chances of it selling in that state for anything like the sums now owed strike me as slim, and the process undoubtedly would take many months, if not years. In reality, prospects for a decent recovery might hinge on the originally-mooted potential of the building / site for residential conversion / development, and who knows how realistic that really is. [ Disclosure: I avoided this loan from the outset] Which is why MT appear to have been incredibly "patient" with this borrower who apparently still has heaps of work to complete in just over 2 weeks, despite having been on the case [allegedly] for well over two years. The buyer thus has leverage but the crunch is coming on March 7 as, apart from anything else, I cannot see the 80% let target being achieved.
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Post by queenvictoria on Feb 20, 2019 10:15:59 GMT
Indeed. Quite why some on this thread seem to be wanting a Receiver to be appointed whilst the Borrower is still pushing the project forward is totally beyond me. The best (only?) hope of this loan repaying smoothly lies in the place opening (eventually) and then (hopefully) trading profitably so that it can be refinanced away. Were the plug to be pulled before this, what's left is nothing more than an empty warehouse building with some semi-complete internal modifications. The chances of it selling in that state for anything like the sums now owed strike me as slim, and the process undoubtedly would take many months, if not years. In reality, prospects for a decent recovery might hinge on the originally-mooted potential of the building / site for residential conversion / development, and who knows how realistic that really is. [ Disclosure: I avoided this loan from the outset] SteveT, I agree with your suggestion that the best outcome is for the project to complete, to prove to be profitable and then get re-financed or sold on. The difficulty I have is that the noises that have been coming out of MT and second-hand from the borrower suggest that this is just not going to happen. When the loan was launched in October 2017 it was described as 'secured by a near-complete commercial property', 'on the final phase of fitting out the interior' that the borrower 'has significant experience of acquiring buildings on a strategic basis and producing reliable income streams.' and that 'the purpose of this loan is to .........provide capital to finish the refurbishment before trading commences in early November, where there are pre-lets in place on rolling one month licenses totalling c£514,000 per annum of gross rent.' Now, as the end of the 18 month loan term approaches the building is pretty much in the same state as it was at the beginning. There is little sign of any publicity to launch the project and the timescales in the latest update do look optimisitic at best. For example, the building is due to open for trading two weeks tomorrow yet the works that are required for the final building control inspection are yet to complete. The update on the Plymouth loan that came out today said that the building control certificate which was applied for in November was only received in February. I think we have to keep our faith in MT, after all they have come good on other projects, but we are very close now to having to call it a day aren't we? I do think MT need to work harder to keep us all on side with more frequent, more factual updates and more opinion from them and less from the borrower. What about a video tour on or around 7th March so we see for ourselves how much progress has been made? What about copies of editorial or advertising for the centre so we can see the how the centre will look to its new customers?
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Post by quidsaveblue2003 on Feb 20, 2019 10:40:41 GMT
No one would like to be "silly", if the the borrower continuiously making the failing promoises, and MT has been relaxing sitting on it, for almost a year, ignoring all the alarming signals. I count 27 MT updates on this loan over calendar year 2018, roughly one every two weeks. "Relaxing sitting on it"??!! Are you sure you're cut out for P2P lending and took proper account of the myriad risk warnings before committing your funds? Thanks for counting there was 27 updates in 2018. As QueenVictoria pointed out above, after 18 months and 27 updates in 2018, the project is just almost the same situation. This is what I mean, MT is “sitting on it”, too relax on this borrower. Updates are not just telling us what the borrower says and MT has the responsibility to verify his words. I'm fair to say MT has been lack of control on this loan during the past months. Passing on what borrower's words does not mean it is properly managed and monitored. Do I make it clear?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Feb 20, 2019 11:02:37 GMT
Whatever you like, guys; it's your money, not mine. Personally, were I in your shoes, I'd prefer the Borrower focus on the challenges of securing Building Regs sign-off (especially the fire safety issues!) than start making pointless videos to placate impatient lenders. And if paying Moorfields to monitor the Borrower's progress doesn't show you that MT are "verifying his words", what does?
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Post by quidsaveblue2003 on Feb 20, 2019 11:40:20 GMT
Of course it does, indeed, but this site visiting has been delayed for almost a year.
we were, are and will be patient and co-operative, but it does not mean we will be pleased to wait for anther 18 months, and 27 updates this year as you counted.
Boll***ton, and 2 Plymouth default loans were very good examples. MT were lack of control on the borrower, no proper monitoring until the borrower ran away
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cedarcourtcapital
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Listening is not the same as understanding
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Feb 20, 2019 12:18:16 GMT
Whatever you like, guys; it's your money, not mine. Personally, were I in your shoes, I'd prefer the Borrower focus on the challenges of securing Building Regs sign-off (especially the fire safety issues!) than start making pointless videos to placate impatient lenders. And if paying Moorfields to monitor the Borrower's progress doesn't show you that MT are "verifying his words", what does? And that is the exact reason why you should not have felt the need to elaborate on your initial worthy comments, because you have 'no skin in the game'. Quite why you feel the need to advise others on what they ought to feel and desire when you are not in their situation is a little bewildering. To some, well at least me, declaring no interest is like a red rag to a bull. In this case, other than making you appear smug, I fail to see how knowing this adds anything to your comments. On the subject of updates, what is the point in more frequent updates - what are lenders going to be able to do with the information contained in them? The bottom line is MT are making the decisions based on their judgement of how to proceed. Long term what is good for them is good for lenders, short term I am not so sure - but that is a very subjective opinion. What you think of their judgement will probably not change, but we are all bound by it. If it's good news updates are great - but what happens to that good feeling when the updates prove not to be true. Okay in this instance it will be physical updates, so are likely to be factually correct, but ultimately I believe we are so close to end of the loan we just have to wait and see. When secondary marked variable pricing come in how regular and informative do you think MT updates will be. Remember at present information, or the perception of information has no real effect when there is a huge sale cue. However when lenders can discount their sales based on their perception of value to them based on the information in the public domain, do you think MT will want to say anything for fear of being accused of making an update that lost people money?
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Feb 20, 2019 12:37:01 GMT
Whatever you like, guys; it's your money, not mine. Personally, were I in your shoes, I'd prefer the Borrower focus on the challenges of securing Building Regs sign-off (especially the fire safety issues!) than start making pointless videos to placate impatient lenders. And if paying Moorfields to monitor the Borrower's progress doesn't show you that MT are "verifying his words", what does? And that is the exact reason why you should not have felt the need to elaborate on your initial worthy comments, because you have 'no skin in the game'. Quite why you feel the need to advise others on what they ought to feel and desire when you are not in their situation is a little bewildering. To some, well at least me, declaring no interest is like a red rag to a bull. In this case, other than making you appear smug, I fail to see how knowing this adds anything to your comments. On the subject of updates, what is the point in more frequent updates - what are lenders going to be able to do with the information contained in them? The bottom line is MT are making the decisions based on their judgement of how to proceed. Long term what is good for them is good for lenders, short term I am not so sure - but that is a very subjective opinion. What you think of their judgement will probably not change, but we are all bound by it. If it's good news updates are great - but what happens to that good feeling when the updates prove not to be true. Okay in this instance it will be physical updates, so are likely to be factually correct, but ultimately I believe we are so close to end of the loan we just have to wait and see. When secondary marked variable pricing come in how regular and informative do you think MT updates will be. Remember at present information, or the perception of information has no real effect when there is a huge sale cue. However when lenders can discount their sales based on their perception of value to them based on the information in the public domain, do you think MT will want to say anything for fear of being accused of making an update that lost people money? Obviously you have read this thread from the beginning, so will know that some people who may wish to comment on the current position have taken part much earlier. Having a current investment really should not be the only criteria for discussing the merits of different views. The loan affects the platform so is clearly of general interest I would suggest.
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dawn
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Post by dawn on Feb 20, 2019 12:39:51 GMT
Whatever you like, guys; it's your money, not mine. Personally, were I in your shoes, I'd prefer the Borrower focus on the challenges of securing Building Regs sign-off (especially the fire safety issues!) than start making pointless videos to placate impatient lenders. And if paying Moorfields to monitor the Borrower's progress doesn't show you that MT are "verifying his words", what does? And that is the exact reason why you should not have felt the need to elaborate on your initial worthy comments, because you have 'no skin in the game'. Quite why you feel the need to advise others on what they ought to feel and desire when you are not in their situation is a little bewildering. To some, well at least me, declaring no interest is like a red rag to a bull. In this case, other than making you appear smug, I fail to see how knowing this adds anything to your comments. On the subject of updates, what is the point in more frequent updates - what are lenders going to be able to do with the information contained in them? The bottom line is MT are making the decisions based on their judgement of how to proceed. Long term what is good for them is good for lenders, short term I am not so sure - but that is a very subjective opinion. What you think of their judgement will probably not change, but we are all bound by it. If it's good news updates are great - but what happens to that good feeling when the updates prove not to be true. Okay in this instance it will be physical updates, so are likely to be factually correct, but ultimately I believe we are so close to end of the loan we just have to wait and see. When secondary marked variable pricing come in how regular and informative do you think MT updates will be. Remember at present information, or the perception of information has no real effect when there is a huge sale cue. However when lenders can discount their sales based on their perception of value to them based on the information in the public domain, do you think MT will want to say anything for fear of being accused of making an update that lost people money? I disagree - some-one with no skin in the game will have a different perspective to some-one who has invested in it. Personally I prefer to consider a variety of views and opinions from a number of different perspectives to ensure I've got as clear a picture as I can and that I'm not missing something because of my position in a particular loan. Only being able to comment on a loan if you are invested in it would deprive others of potentially useful and informative views and opinions and, in my opinion, be one-sided. There are a number of contributors on this form, SteveT among them, whose words I value - I don't always agree but I value them - whether it is about loans that we are both in or loans that one of us is in and the other not. Being clear whether you are in a loan or not is not being smug - it is making the reader aware of the perspective of the poster and is therefore a valuable thing to know.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Feb 20, 2019 12:59:24 GMT
cedarcourtcapital, my apologies for intruding with my views and I will leave the NuL hand-wringers in peace. Sometimes I find it hard not to call out nonsense on this forum where I see it. Must try harder.
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