Nomad
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Post by Nomad on Feb 19, 2019 7:53:19 GMT
Not sure on the need for weekly updates tbh - it's only 19 days away from it's grand Sunday opening. Be fever pitch in the Potteries with all this work underway and a blitz of grand opening media etc Hmmmm We are 19 days away from opening and there is no sign of any publicity on the centre's Facebook page / Twitter etc. Do we really want to wait 30 days to hear that the place is not open because they are awaiting building control sign off or whatever the latest delay is? In any other project I would agree with you but this particular loan has failed and failed again and I, for one, still feel very little confidence that we will be seeing any of our money back any time soon. I'm so glad I didn't lend on this project. To me it seems 100/1 that all these conditions can be met within 16 days. Actually it's only 14 working days left, excluding Sundays. There is obviously masses of work still required, and no clarity on funding, manpower, or why so much remains to complete after two and a half years [MT 13.10.17 "The borrower has spent c. £1.4m in the last 14 months on developing the site for its intended use."] . The main access? Heating? Fire safety? Lifts? Painting? Security shutters? Building control??? And how on earth can they find another 60 dealers in just 2 or 3 weeks to reach 80% occupancy? Moreover, how many of the 269 have actually gone elsewhere by now? And these leases are actually "rolling one month licences" [MT 13.10.17] and there will be a constant churn of tenants. .
Presumably there are no spare funds for the large promotional effort that launching this place will need.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Feb 19, 2019 8:18:44 GMT
We are 19 days away from opening and there is no sign of any publicity on the centre's Facebook page / Twitter etc. Do we really want to wait 30 days to hear that the place is not open because they are awaiting building control sign off or whatever the latest delay is? In any other project I would agree with you but this particular loan has failed and failed again and I, for one, still feel very little confidence that we will be seeing any of our money back any time soon. I'm so glad I didn't lend on this project. To me it seems 100/1 that all these conditions can be met within 16 days. Actually it's only 14 working days left, excluding Sundays. There is obviously masses of work still required, and no clarity on funding, manpower, or why so much remains to complete after two and a half years [MT 13.10.17 "The borrower has spent c. £1.4m in the last 14 months on developing the site for its intended use."] . The main access? Heating? Fire safety? Lifts? Painting? Security shutters? Building control??? And how on earth can they find another 60 dealers in just 2 or 3 weeks to reach 80% occupancy? Moreover, how many of the 269 have actually gone elsewhere by now? And these leases are actually "rolling one month licences" [MT 13.10.17] and there will be a constant churn of tenants. .
Presumably there are no spare funds for the large promotional effort that launching this place will need.I remain optimistic. At least this isn’t one of lendys DFL lending against GDV
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KoR_Wraith
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Post by KoR_Wraith on Feb 19, 2019 8:35:24 GMT
Why is the borrower committing to an opening date that they seem very likely to miss? Better to give a later more realistic date than let everyone down again.
I like the level of detail and involvement in the monitoring of this loan; I wish many more loans and lenders were subject to such scrutiny.
Providing additional security, as alluded to in the update, would go a long way to redeeming the situation in my eyes.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 19, 2019 8:39:15 GMT
It definitely seems to require a further MoneyThing update in a lot less than a month, when some of the 'underway' activities (extra security, lease checking, etc) are done (or fail).
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archie
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Post by archie on Feb 19, 2019 8:42:14 GMT
I would of thought an Easter opening more realistic, subject to there being sufficient funds to complete the project.
Refinance is our best option.
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mary
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Post by mary on Feb 19, 2019 9:17:43 GMT
I would of thought an Easter opening more realistic, subject to there being sufficient funds to complete the project.
Refinance is our best option. Assuming it ever opens (we’re already 16 months past the ‘imminent’ October’17 promised date) the only relevant question is ... do the 269 signed leases support the interest costs of a full refinance, after running costs are deducted? I am doubtful, especially as, surely, many of these vendors will have either found alternatives, or just gone bust or died during the never ending delays?
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archie
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Post by archie on Feb 19, 2019 9:23:51 GMT
I would of thought an Easter opening more realistic, subject to there being sufficient funds to complete the project.
Refinance is our best option. Assuming it ever opens (we’re already 16 months past the ‘imminent’ October’17 promised date) the only relevant question is ... do the 269 signed leases support the interest costs of a full refinance, after running costs are deducted? I am doubtful, especially as, surely, many of these vendors will have either found alternatives, or just gone bust or died during the never ending delays? Better for it to open and refinance than be sold in a default situation.
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mary
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Post by mary on Feb 19, 2019 9:45:39 GMT
Assuming it ever opens (we’re already 16 months past the ‘imminent’ October’17 promised date) the only relevant question is ... do the 269 signed leases support the interest costs of a full refinance, after running costs are deducted? I am doubtful, especially as, surely, many of these vendors will have either found alternatives, or just gone bust or died during the never ending delays? Better for it to open and refinance than be sold in a default situation. Obviously I agree. But the point is, the Borrower has shown no ability to cover our overdue interest, and if, once open, the Leases fail to produce sufficient free cash flow to cover the interest on a refinancing, then this loan is defaulting anyway.
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cedarcourtcapital
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Listening is not the same as understanding
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Feb 19, 2019 9:54:28 GMT
Better for it to open and refinance than be sold in a default situation. Unfortunately this is the exact reason why so much latitude is continued to be given. MT know the situation is dire and needs to now be as helpful as they can because another default..... Remember this loan was made when everything MT touched seemed to be have the touch of gold, in hindsight was the proposal ever a viable one - who knows, but it was certainly not within the timescales given. 'Alternative finance' was needed because mainline lending was not supportive, now we see why. Yes for a period we earned a good rate of return, but what has happened to that since interest stopped being paid? We are effectively providing an interest free loan in the hope that the borrower can complete their plans. My strong feelings are the default value of the valuation is going to be tested. Now judgement on whether MT have done the right thing by we lenders will be made on whether full interest and capital can recovered. I will not be happy even if I get 100% of my capital back but no missing interest. If this is the case this could have been achieved a year ago, or at least the default valuation tested then. Privately I have received a couple of polite private messages suggesting I am out of order writing that MT are out of their depth. I stand by my comments based on the handling of this and other loans on MT. 'Kicking the can' and hoping that things come right, rather than the more messy calling in of the loan, proves my point in my eyes. It was very easy to set up a web site and start offering 'secured' pawn loans, but moving to property while lucrative at first required a very different skill set! P.S. Who is paying for all the additional monitoring, someone must be. If it's MT great. If it is going to eventually come out of any recovery, and this will be less than 100% of capital and outstanding interest - not so good.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 19, 2019 10:00:02 GMT
Glad to hear it, but some of us, awaiting the update, actually hoped to read it before going to bed ... or even during normal office hours. Ah bless...have you had your cocoa yet .....I'm glad they don't just stick to office hours...and do things like deposits and withdrawals over the weekend etc ..hey ho..sweet dreams
I too am delighted they work evenings and weekends, I just wish they'd do the time critical stuff during normal working hours. Having read the update I can see there was a lot of typing, but they did have most of a week to type it (and that was ~1/3rd of the time to the supposed opening, iirc).
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Feb 19, 2019 12:31:29 GMT
Ah bless...have you had your cocoa yet .....I'm glad they don't just stick to office hours...and do things like deposits and withdrawals over the weekend etc ..hey ho..sweet dreams
I too am delighted they work evenings and weekends, I just wish they'd do the time critical stuff during normal working hours. Having read the update I can see there was a lot of typing, but they did have most of a week to type it (and that was ~1/3rd of the time to the supposed opening, iirc).
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Carter
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Post by Carter on Feb 19, 2019 13:09:00 GMT
Firstly, thank you MoneyThing for this detailed update. I for one appreciate the increased rigour you have applied to protect our interests. Frankly, I think some of the comments aimed in your direction are a disgrace. I wonder sometimes if people forget who they lend money to and on what terms. From the update I have discerned the following; The borrower is a muppet. Whoever has been managing the project is inept. Moneything could/should have stepped in sooner. The additional security would be welcome. It does look like this will launch but I can't see that happening for at least 2 months. Be interested to know how much trading history will be required for the refinance. If its a slow start will they really sign it off. Anyway, repayment, full interest and that other 2% before end of the tax year and I'll be happy.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Feb 19, 2019 15:14:55 GMT
*Cough* Ed, your not really helping yourself here. Not in this one personally but you have to admit lenders are rightly going to question your ability to manage these property loans when you can’t even follow up on your commitment to provide an update (and this isn’t the first time). Whether moneything are out of their depth or just plain negligent remains to be seen but you need to stop kicking the can down the road. ...I am still here...my day has not ended yet... Ed. MoneyThingThanks for the update. The previous update said the loan would be suspended until the assessment had been carried out. Are there any plans to unsuspended the loan now the assessment has been carried out ?
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cedarcourtcapital
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Feb 19, 2019 15:39:53 GMT
Frankly, I think some of the comments aimed in your direction are a disgrace. I wonder sometimes if people forget who they lend money to and on what terms. Do you mean the loan terms which were changed? Previously MT worked with every loan being repaid on time, and if an extension was required lenders could decide whether they wished to recommit for whatever the new period was. Lenders always had the option to get their funds back. The point is when loans were taken out the end date was known and fixed, lenders never got stuck in 'Hotel California' loans. I fully understand why MT had to make this change, and I accepted it, but no suggestion should be made that lenders did not know the terms of the loan when it was taken out. In the right circumstances terms change, be it term or in some cases interest rate.
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Post by queenvictoria on Feb 19, 2019 15:44:17 GMT
There have been a couple of references on the forum to 'increased security' which was one of the conditions cited in the update.
It took it from the update that the security to be increased was physical ie shutters etc to the ground floor of the building but I think others may have understood it as security to the loan.
MT, would you please clarify.
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