dovap
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Post by dovap on Feb 4, 2019 23:58:05 GMT
I look forward to a decent update following the 11th - will make a nice change from the phantom valuer and various tall tales
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Post by charliebrown on Feb 5, 2019 2:22:47 GMT
This borrower has done himself no favours. He’s told lie after lie, even lies that very quickly get exposed as lies, such as “I’ll cover the interest payments”. There’s also something that doesn’t add up, the borrower is said to be wealthy yet can’t raise 40k to cover completion of a development allegedly worth 5million. I think MT are doing the right thing by sending in 3rd parties to make an assessment. I don’t believe a word this borrower says so I’m skeptical that’s there’s only 40k of work needed to complete. After hoping for imminent repayment this now looks like it’s going to be a long drawn out process. MT should have acted sooner. As I stated in previous posts once the borrower starts with the lies and deceipt I believe the platform should take immediate control.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 5, 2019 8:37:09 GMT
I look forward to a decent update following the 11th - will make a nice change from the phantom valuer and various tall tales I suspect there was a real valuer, but they could not (be persuaded to) produce the required answer. Which would indicate a LARGE disconnect between that and reality.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Feb 5, 2019 8:56:56 GMT
I’m pleased to see MTV finally taking some positive action. The lender has to have a “take no ” attitude. All high interest borrowers will try it on if they sense weakness.
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amwinv
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Post by amwinv on Feb 5, 2019 10:25:59 GMT
I look forward to a decent update following the 11th - will make a nice change from the phantom valuer and various tall tales I suspect there was a real valuer, but they could not (be persuaded to) produce the required answer. Which would indicate a LARGE disconnect between that and reality. An actual honest decent valuer?!?!?!? Can all p2p platforms ONLY hire this particular valuer for everything in future?
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Post by rollercoaster on Feb 5, 2019 12:45:37 GMT
Will/can MT commission their own valuation?
Good to hear of additional scrutiny - but of course this comes at a cost.
It looks like cash flow might be a real issue with this one (money to finish build - plus money to cover costs until refinance the place as a going concern) - so I hope MT includes a proper cash flow analysis of any future proposals. Especially around alternate exit proposals. I can see other property / business development investments having similar issues - too much focus on building, not enough on achieving actual money when the thing is built.
Good luck getting decent returns out of this one - that partnership that sorted Plymouth are in a great position in the current economic conditions!
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 5, 2019 12:49:58 GMT
Yes.....pleased to see the parties getting involved Agreed. I do wonder though if the advice of those same parties had been sought before the loan drew down, whether we would be where we are today. There's obviously a trend developing within the attitude of many P2P platforms insofar that they find it far more convenient to accept the lies, assurances, promises, verbal undertakings, etc from borrowers who are in default (whatever term the platforms care to declare), rather than get off their a***s to check out the facts.
We're at the stage where it's now accepted that anyone can set up a fancy P2P website, gain FCA authorisation, claim to have a management team with xx years of experience, etc, etc. Occasionally when I've done DD on the platforms themselves, you'd be surprised at the background of the characters behind them - all conveniently ignored by the FCA who have been shown to be as useful as a chocolate teapot.
A sad state of affairs and little wonder many folks are calling it a day. Many platforms and/or the management are simply not up to a standard which lenders should feel confident with.
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Post by mrclondon on Feb 5, 2019 13:10:38 GMT
We're at the stage where it's now accepted that anyone can set up a fancy P2P website, gain FCA authorisation, claim to have a management team with xx years of experience, etc, etc. Somewhat off topic, but probably relevant - it isn't even necessary to gain FCA authorisation, simply becoming an approved agent for someone that is does the trick. The launch of propifi (see thread here) as an agent of Resolution Compliance is rather troubling with at least two possibly more loans to a borrower with an 'interesting' track record with previous p2p loans. I think this, and some of the other points that bugs4me made are relevant because in his words "its little wonder many folks are calling it a day". This affects all platforms, including MT as the suspisions regarding the ease with which borrowers can get a loan, then suddenly it transpires the facts don't match what was claimed are not easily brushed aside. I nearly posted yesterday on the thread for the loan that has just drawn down to suggest that MT should be deploying an IMS (or equivalent person with the necessary building trade experience) on that project to ensure the "small amount of works remaining" (£150k worth IIRC) are actually done in a sensible timeframe.
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Feb 5, 2019 13:26:27 GMT
I suspect there was a real valuer, but they could not (be persuaded to) produce the required answer. Which would indicate a LARGE disconnect between that and reality. An actual honest decent valuer?!?!?!? Can all p2p platforms ONLY hire this particular valuer for everything in future? Mmm. If a number of platforms (they and we know who they are) only employed "an actual honest decent valuer" they'd go out of business in no time
P.S. I'm not necessarily saying this is a bad thing.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 5, 2019 13:53:19 GMT
<snip> I think this, and some of the other points that bugs4me made are relevant because in his words "its little wonder many folks are calling it a day". This affects all platforms, including MT as the suspisions regarding the ease with which borrowers can get a loan, then suddenly it transpires the facts don't match what was claimed are not easily brushed aside. <snip> Agree 101% but it demonstrates some of the amateurish behavior of many platforms that they simply do not get it. They fail to recognise the 'knock on effect' it's having with their own businesses and just carry on as though nothing is happening in the marketplace.
No doubt they will blame Brexit, the weather, time of year, economic downturn, etc - anything for the slow uptake of loan offerings.
There exists IMO a huge opportunity for a platform to offer a fair return, below the headline grabbing 12%, but ensure the full material facts are disclosed when offering the loan. Then ensure the loan is professionally managed until completion. I don't believe though that level of management/marketing expertise currently exists.
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archie
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Post by archie on Feb 5, 2019 15:11:34 GMT
Why is the loan showing as yellow?
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invester
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Post by invester on Feb 5, 2019 15:40:19 GMT
Is it not too pertinent to ask why the borrower is asking for a refund from the valuer when the report was already done?
If the project is short of £40k, this doesn't sound like a lot of work. Would it not be better that someone from Moneything just goes along there with the cash and personally ensures that the project is completed. It could be simply a case of sending a staff member there for two weeks and ensuring there are no more games and saves appointing anyone else.
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corto
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one-syllabistic
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Post by corto on Feb 5, 2019 15:48:22 GMT
I believe because bidding is currently suspended
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 5, 2019 19:25:14 GMT
Is it not too pertinent to ask why the borrower is asking for a refund from the valuer when the report was already done? If the project is short of £40k, this doesn't sound like a lot of work. Would it not be better that someone from Moneything just goes along there with the cash and personally ensures that the project is completed. It could be simply a case of sending a staff member there for two weeks and ensuring there are no more games and saves appointing anyone else. 1) because the answer was not what the borrower required? 2) how many spare MT staff do you suppose there are? Better to send someone with the right expertise, who is actually available. I guess you could volunteer, but they already seem to have the A-team on the case.
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invester
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Post by invester on Feb 6, 2019 7:54:05 GMT
That kind of sets a strange precedent if a valuer has to refund the money for services already completed, I didn't realise that this was a thing.
For the second part that kind of assumes that they wouldn't be able to work remotely which I doubt would be the case. It seems strange that for a developer of this experience, they are 'hopeful' of 'raising' this amount of cash.
£40k of work is not going to be that much, so a member of staff overseeing milestones for a couple of days I don't think will have an adverse effect on Moneything's operations. It is entirely different from asking them to project manage something from the start, and regular visits to sites should be part of the regular process anyway from platforms. Stuff like Whitehaven may never have happened had a physical check been made.
In part, I think that is why a lot of development loans have gone bad, platforms have insufficient understanding of the process and as such accept excuses even when they are patently rubbish because they know no better.
It sounds rather poor that the other parties have moved the goalposts, and whilst it seems we are on the final stretch I don't want to give them any chances to shift them again if something is delayed.
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