jo
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Post by jo on Jun 23, 2023 10:25:12 GMT
Cheers Stu.
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Post by garreh on Jun 23, 2023 11:15:33 GMT
The original poster might not have read the Glassdoor reviews of AC's employees, which shed light on the fact that AC has consistently mistreated not only "sophisticated investors" but also its own staff.
Litigation at this stage might be premature and could lead to unfavourable consequences, but I am not in favor of endorsing AC as they seem to arbitrarily change their rules. Even seasoned sophisticated investors would not have anticipated the complete disregard for previous statements and adjustments to terms to suit their own needs - to the point they are now diverting investors' interests to fund employee redundancies. Additionally they are lining their own pockets with profitable loans early and throwing investors to the wolves later.
It's difficult to consider AC as the ethical party in this situation. Perhaps if the platform were managed by conscientious and compassionate founders, these issues could have been avoided in the first place.
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alender
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Post by alender on Jun 23, 2023 13:15:16 GMT
In my opinion anyone, who believes that no win no fee litigation will deliver a better outcome for each individual is delusional. Be careful what you wish for as it is entirely possible that you could end up with nothing except regret that you destroyed your one and only chance for the return on your investment. The no win no fee litigation like or not is going ahead, it is just whether you chose to join in, that is of course up to you. IMO it is delusional to think that doing nothing will produce a good outcome, AC will keep milking investors for as much as they can unless they are stopped, it is AC that has driven investors to take this action. Unfortunately the upfront loading of fees looks to me like AC are going to take all they can as soon as possible, put it into administration, walk away and then blame someone else, hope this not the plan but why upfront load the fees and then no fees, can't see AC working for nothing for years once they have already banked the money.
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Post by overthehill on Jun 23, 2023 13:40:56 GMT
I don't know how bad it will get for new and recent investors in Assetzcapital but anyone who has been investing for a few years with a static or decreasing investment balance shouldn't exit with overall losses. However if you look at the number of default loans (even before the plug was pulled) and the staggering capital/interest shortfalls I wouldn't it rule it out. And for AC everytime a loan goes bad, ding ding. Why do they need huge amounts of extra money, what are the administrators and receivers doing? Other P2P companies seem to manage without fleecing investors.
The effective return pa average for a huge number of people will be some distance from the historic advertised rates.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Jun 23, 2023 14:15:48 GMT
Good morning all In response to the disgruntled retail investors. I expect that there are many more sophisticated retail investors who fully understand the wind down as a regrettable but necessary and appropriate business decision, due to the current high interest rate environment, in the best interest of all stakeholders that gives the best achievable outcome when looking at all possible alternatives. In my opinion anyone, who believes that no win no fee litigation will deliver a better outcome for each individual is delusional. Be careful what you wish for as it is entirely possible that you could end up with nothing except regret that you destroyed your one and only chance for the return on your investment. I appreciate the current situation is far from ideal. I have invested in many other investments that not had such favourable outcome. That's investing for you win some and lose some. I suspect that the negative views on this forum are of a minority percentage of the thousands of other retail investors who accept investing has risks. Any Assetz Capital investor, equity or retail, who had a more sophisticated understanding of their investment would recognise and appreciate that the actions taken by the company are in the best interests of all stakeholders, retails, equity, borrowers and company. In my opinion, a lack of understanding or ignorance of the terms and conditions of retail investment, or the wider economic conditions, lays at the heart of the disgruntled. All investments have risk. If you do not fully understand your investment risks or the terms and conditions then you should not invest. If you do invest then you should own your own decisions. Have a great weekend. No problem with winding down. Makes sense. But wind down like rate setter, zopa even FC et al. Timely. Reasonably. Fairly.
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Post by crabbyoldgit on Jun 23, 2023 17:17:55 GMT
Do not mind them covering costs , though redundancy payments are pushing it, but the new rate means they are taking over my full rate of return before losses and any charges to the borrower on top. Mean while all the risks are mine , none as I see it ACs. That on the evidence I can see makes no sense, also the front loading of fees at this level gives a strong suspicion that it's grab now and run. AC need to give a clear commitment to an orderly run down over the long term, but I only hear crickets.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jun 23, 2023 18:01:07 GMT
Any Assetz Capital investor, equity or retail, who had a more sophisticated understanding of their investment would recognise and appreciate that the actions taken by the company are in the best interests of all stakeholders, retails, equity, borrowers and company.
I totally agree. Anyone with any common sense can see that the people behind AC have lost quite a few million and will probably wash their hands of the whole thing if it becomes a head ache with litigation etc etc. The P2P party is over, be greatful for what ever you get back and dont push your luck.
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Post by Ace on Jun 23, 2023 19:04:08 GMT
Any Assetz Capital investor, equity or retail, who had a more sophisticated understanding of their investment would recognise and appreciate that the actions taken by the company are in the best interests of all stakeholders, retails, equity, borrowers and company.
I totally agree. Anyone with any common sense can see that the people behind AC have lost quite a few million and will probably wash their hands of the whole thing if it becomes a head ache with litigation etc etc. The P2P party is over, be greatful for what ever you get back and dont push your luck.
The people behind AC haven't lost a penny. Future loans are being funded by institutional investors. The costs of winding down the retail side is being borne by the retail lenders, including the redundancy costs for staff that AC no longer need. How that can be fair is beyond me. It's AC's failure to come up with a workable model (where many others are succeeding) not the failure of the retail lenders. The costs of AC's business failures should be borne by AC. The P2P party is very much alive and kicking; damaged by AC's incompetence no doubt, but there are very many professional and competent platforms that are flourishing, even in today's difficult conditions, that put AC to shame. I agree that AC may well abandon lenders to the wolves once they have finished picking over the corpse that they created. I'm now embarrassed to be an AC equity shareholder.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jun 24, 2023 8:48:04 GMT
I totally agree. Anyone with any common sense can see that the people behind AC have lost quite a few million and will probably wash their hands of the whole thing if it becomes a head ache with litigation etc etc. The P2P party is over, be greatful for what ever you get back and dont push your luck.
The people behind AC haven't lost a penny. Future loans are being funded by institutional investors. The costs of winding down the retail side is being borne by the retail lenders, including the redundancy costs for staff that AC no longer need. How that can be fair is beyond me. It's AC's failure to come up with a workable model (where many others are succeeding) not the failure of the retail lenders. The costs of AC's business failures should be borne by AC. The P2P party is very much alive and kicking; damaged by AC's incompetence no doubt, but there are very many professional and competent platforms that are flourishing, even in today's difficult conditions, that put AC to shame. I agree that AC may well abandon lenders to the wolves once they have finished picking over the corpse that they created. I'm now embarrassed to be an AC equity shareholder.
Check the group accounts, the share premium is in the millions and the company is in negative equity. The equity holders - which I assume include the founders have lost millions.
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alender
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Post by alender on Jun 24, 2023 9:25:10 GMT
Check the group accounts, the share premium is in the millions and the company is in negative equity. The equity holders - which I assume include the founders have lost millions.
What happens if you include those lovely directors remuneration packages. Looks like not only have the lenders been shafted but the shareholders who are not directors have also been shafted, this company is either totally incompetent or ..... I let you fill in the blanks.
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Post by Ace on Jun 24, 2023 10:26:58 GMT
The people behind AC haven't lost a penny. Future loans are being funded by institutional investors. The costs of winding down the retail side is being borne by the retail lenders, including the redundancy costs for staff that AC no longer need. How that can be fair is beyond me. It's AC's failure to come up with a workable model (where many others are succeeding) not the failure of the retail lenders. The costs of AC's business failures should be borne by AC. The P2P party is very much alive and kicking; damaged by AC's incompetence no doubt, but there are very many professional and competent platforms that are flourishing, even in today's difficult conditions, that put AC to shame. I agree that AC may well abandon lenders to the wolves once they have finished picking over the corpse that they created. I'm now embarrassed to be an AC equity shareholder.
Check the group accounts, the share premium is in the millions and the company is in negative equity. The equity holders - which I assume include the founders have lost millions.
They made a £2.1m profit in 21 and a £3.6m loss in 22. The loss was due to reduced lending volumes due to Covid. Lending volumes are back on the rise and they're cleverly and slyly shifting the costs of closing the retail side, which only accounted for 20% of the business anyway, onto lenders. With massive increases in institutional funding they are likely to be profitable again very soon, with an IPO to follow soon after making the "people behind AC" multimillionaires.
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Jun 24, 2023 10:42:40 GMT
Check the group accounts, the share premium is in the millions and the company is in negative equity. The equity holders - which I assume include the founders have lost millions.
What happens if you include those lovely directors remuneration packages. Looks like not only have the lenders been shafted but the shareholders who are not directors have also been shafted, this company is either totally incompetent or ..... I let you fill in the blanks. The comment "the founders have lost millions" is not based on any evidence whatsoever, in terms of them having money they have invested from their own pockets, unless you are party to information that we don't have. If so, please share here in this thread? Don't forget Stuart Law and his buddies will have gifted themselves those shares, not bought them. They are on top of Mr Law's eye watering salary, bonuses, 'expenses' and a dozen other ways he will have creamed our money out of Assetz Capital for himself. Any supposition that Stuart Law et al are now driving their Jaguars and Bentleys to their local food banks in order to have enough food to eat is absurd to the extreme. I think one or two people are suffering from Stockholm syndrome, wherein they develop an irrational bond with their captors. Stuart Law never has and never will care for the investors. As many other retail lenders have rightfully commented, the supposition that "doing nothing" will lead to an about turn in Assetz Capital's modus operandi of many years and for them to start prioritising retail lenders' needs is not based on any fact. The unilateral imposition of all these new, ever-increasing and ever-extended, fees shows Assetz Capital's colours once again. If the Assetz Capital management and staff were so incompetent that they were not able to make a success of their one and only job in life, to run a peer-to-peer lending business, when, as has pointed out above, many other people have made a success of it, why should I be forced to paying their fat-cat salaries, redundancies and whatever else they choose to reward themselves with? If they can introduce any fees, at any level of their choosing, with their customers/clients having no say whatsoever, the logic extension of that would be that any other business could do the same: doubling, tripling or quadrupling their fees out of the blues to their customers and those customers not even having the choice of avoiding those charges by parting ways with that business. I myself did not lodge a single complaint with Assetz Capital or any regulator despite Assetz Capital being the only platform I invest with to introduce a whole plethora of moves against my interests during and after Covid. Did that result in Assetz Capital treating me even the slightest bit better? Not on your nelly. Therefore, I have no qualms in having submitted another 25 page complaint about the thieves to the Financial Ombudsman Service yesterday. As per the other thread, I would encourage everyone to consider hiring Mendelsons Solicitors to take action against Assetz. 100% no-win no-fee. Therefore you only have an upside potential of getting the money that you were due and no downside whatsoever. It's only if Assetz Capital realise that they can't screw retail lenders over at will that they might start acting in a less blaze way. Otherwise Stuart Law and Co. will carry on stealing our hard-earned money to fill their Jaguars' boots with as many bagfuls of fifty quid notes as possible before they proceed with their probable plans to push Assetz Capital into Administration and then jump fully into bed with their current darlings, their institutional investors.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 24, 2023 10:55:41 GMT
Check the group accounts, the share premium is in the millions and the company is in negative equity. The equity holders - which I assume include the founders have lost millions.
They made a £2.1m profit in 21 and a £3.6m loss in 22. The loss was due to reduced lending volumes due to Covid. Lending volumes are back on the rise and they're cleverly and slyly shifting the costs of closing the retail side, which only accounted for 20% of the business anyway, onto lenders. With massive increases in institutional funding they are likely to be profitable again very soon, with an IPO to follow soon after making the "people behind AC" multimillionaires. The loss was down to investing in people & corporate development to support future lending growth which will ultimately only be for the benefit of the institutional side. The bulk of the lending was retail, institutional representing just over 20% and therefore the bulk of the income was from retail. AC has invested heavily in its tech, people etc in developing its product ... with the transfer of assets to the institutional side the big question is what consideration has been paid to the retail entity for the IP, goodwill, staff development etc. At least one of their institutional funders is in trouble, subject to regulatory investigation, and restructuring I would make no assumptions about founder losses, as these are purely on paper anyway and subject to the point of investment. Early entry investors are still able to exit at a profit despite a 50% drop in the SP from the last raise
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Post by Ace on Jun 24, 2023 11:15:53 GMT
They made a £2.1m profit in 21 and a £3.6m loss in 22. The loss was due to reduced lending volumes due to Covid. Lending volumes are back on the rise and they're cleverly and slyly shifting the costs of closing the retail side, which only accounted for 20% of the business anyway, onto lenders. With massive increases in institutional funding they are likely to be profitable again very soon, with an IPO to follow soon after making the "people behind AC" multimillionaires. The loss was down to investing in people & corporate development to support future lending growth which will ultimately only be for the benefit of the institutional side. The bulk of the lending was retail, institutional representing just over 20% and therefore the bulk of the income was from retail. AC has invested heavily in its tech, people etc in developing its product ... with the transfer of assets to the institutional side the big question is what consideration has been paid to the retail entity for the IP, goodwill, staff development etc. At least one of their institutional funders is in trouble, subject to regulatory investigation, and restructuring I would make no assumptions about founder losses, as these are purely on paper anyway and subject to the point of investment. Early entry investors are still able to exit at a profit despite a 50% drop in the SH from the last raise I'm not sure what periods you are referring to, but according to S Law "Institutional capital has provided 80% of all of Assetz Capital’s lending since 2020". A quote from www.assetzcapital.co.uk/whats-happening-at-assetz-capital/: "The first billion was more than 90% retail funded but, as soon as the pandemic started, it went to nearly 100% institutional funded".
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 24, 2023 12:32:38 GMT
The loss was down to investing in people & corporate development to support future lending growth which will ultimately only be for the benefit of the institutional side. The bulk of the lending was retail, institutional representing just over 20% and therefore the bulk of the income was from retail. AC has invested heavily in its tech, people etc in developing its product ... with the transfer of assets to the institutional side the big question is what consideration has been paid to the retail entity for the IP, goodwill, staff development etc. At least one of their institutional funders is in trouble, subject to regulatory investigation, and restructuring I would make no assumptions about founder losses, as these are purely on paper anyway and subject to the point of investment. Early entry investors are still able to exit at a profit despite a 50% drop in the SH from the last raise I'm not sure what periods you are referring to, but according to S Law "Institutional capital has provided 80% of all of Assetz Capital’s lending since 2020". A quote from www.assetzcapital.co.uk/whats-happening-at-assetz-capital/: "The first billion was more than 90% retail funded but, as soon as the pandemic started, it went to nearly 100% institutional funded". The directors report in the accounts up to 31 March 2022 Maybe Stuart forgot to check with his COO/CFO ... not sure Id place a lot of reliance on much Stuart says in relation to the runoff especially in a fluff piece for a magazine
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