cedarcourtcapital
Member of DD Central
Listening is not the same as understanding
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Oct 30, 2020 23:54:06 GMT
I am sad when I see comments on here, while not exactly endorsing MT's actions and decisions, then making the point that the alternative is a worse course of action. By making this point it seems to endorse MT's handling of their remaining loans and their ineffectual actions.
Many people have made the point that MT still access this forum and read posts. I really do not care if this is true because I have lost all faith in MT. However if it is true, then their reading posts that enforce their actions, or at least decry the alternatives, will convince them they are doing the right thing.
My position is I would rather take my chances with anyone other than MT handling their remaining loans. It irks me that MT are now earning money for their procrastination, that the longer they draw their defaults out, the longer their administration, the higher their 'handling' charge, which will be taken out of any recoveries before anything is returned to lenders - as per their T&Cs Mt are okay. I would rather that anyone, other administrators, made money off my misfortune to still be involved with MT. I hold MT, and their rush to grow their platform by bringing us their sub standard loans, responsible for the position I find myself in. I also hold them responsible for the weak position they take with borrowers.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 31, 2020 0:48:50 GMT
Looks at the thread, looks at the history, scratches head, smiles at the irony.
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jonno
Member of DD Central
nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Oct 31, 2020 9:11:24 GMT
Looks at the thread, looks at the history, scratches head, smiles at the irony. Be careful with the head scratching or you'll end up with pork scratching
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cedarcourtcapital
Member of DD Central
Listening is not the same as understanding
Posts: 190
Likes: 316
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Oct 31, 2020 16:50:09 GMT
Looks at the thread, looks at the history, scratches head, smiles at the irony. Reads the post, knows the thread, and does not have a clue what the author is on about.
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mah
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Post by mah on Oct 31, 2020 20:30:35 GMT
will convince them they are doing the right thing. They are convinced. Actually it should say "would encourage them to milk us more @ 2% per Annum".
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Post by queenvictoria on Nov 1, 2020 14:00:08 GMT
it seems the chocolate banter days are well and truly over.all these platforms seem to follow the same pattern when the end is nigh and any efforts seem to be to make sure they get as much as possible out of the loan books for themselves. P2P ehh well we all know now how it really works and it is not what it says on the tin. I think we are in agreement, cedarcourtcapital, on MTs abilities in communication. They are all jolly and upbeat at the outset when the sun is shining and everyone is having fun but when the real work begins, when real difficilt conversations are required they retreat, retreat further and then eventually clam up until they are almost silent. We only see how they communicate with investors but one must assume their abilities are no more developed when dealing with borrowers and any other stakeholders in their business. Where you and I seem to disagree is on the importance of communication. I think it is the most vital of skills in a business. Ed and Sophie's inability to communicate properly and their unwillingness to recognise their failure will damn them next time out, I am sure of that.
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cedarcourtcapital
Member of DD Central
Listening is not the same as understanding
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Nov 1, 2020 17:55:54 GMT
We only see how they communicate with investors but one must assume their abilities are no more developed when dealing with borrowers and any other stakeholders in their business. Where you and I seem to disagree is on the importance of communication. I think it is the most vital of skills in a business. Ed and Sophie's inability to communicate properly and their unwillingness to recognise their failure will damn them next time out, I am sure of that. I do not think we have to assume anything about their abilities to communicate with borrowers. We actually have evidence of how ineffective it is by their abilities to bring delinquent loans to a satisfactory conclusion, meaning get lenders money returned to them. I would rather hear nothing and have my monies returned, than hear lots of very nice excuses and reasons why matters cannot be concluded. Yes it would be nice to have effective and informative communications and get my monies back, but given a choice I would always choose effective action over improved communications any day. I am not interested in whether MT recognise or acknowledge their communication failings. As time goes on MT have proved and continue to prove they are completely out of their depth in the position they find themselves in, having to administer the demise of their platform to get lenders funds returned. With the benefit of hindsight, for me at least, it no longer seems such a great idea to have platforms be required to have a 'living will' arrangement, whereby the platform had to have arrangements in place to handle it's own run down. What this has meant in practice is MT now have further opportunities to milk more income out of their ineptitude, by charging further amounts and have the benefit of being able to pay themselves this out of any recoveries.
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Post by queenvictoria on Nov 1, 2020 18:06:27 GMT
We only see how they communicate with investors but one must assume their abilities are no more developed when dealing with borrowers and any other stakeholders in their business. Where you and I seem to disagree is on the importance of communication. I think it is the most vital of skills in a business. Ed and Sophie's inability to communicate properly and their unwillingness to recognise their failure will damn them next time out, I am sure of that. I do not think we have to assume anything about their abilities to communicate with borrowers. We actually have evidence of how ineffective it is by their abilities to bring delinquent loans to a satisfactory conclusion, meaning get lenders money returned to them. I would rather hear nothing and have my monies returned, than hear lots of very nice excuses and reasons why matters cannot be concluded. Yes it would be nice to have effective and informative communications and get my monies back, but given a choice I would always choose effective action over improved communications any day. I am not interested in whether MT recognise or acknowledge their communication failings. As time goes on MT have proved and continue to prove they are completely out of their depth in the position they find themselves in, having to administer the demise of their platform to get lenders funds returned. With the benefit of hindsight, for me at least, it no longer seems such a great idea to have platforms be required to have a 'living will' arrangement, whereby the platform had to have arrangements in place to handle it's own run down. What this has meant in practice is MT now have further opportunities to milk more income out of their ineptitude, by charging further amounts and have the benefit of being able to pay themselves this out of any recoveries. My point is that I don’t really think you can have one without the other. A business that cannot communicate fails to do effective business. I’m with you in that I don’t want to hear platitudes but I do want to be regularly kept upto date on progress even if the progress is slow.
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cedarcourtcapital
Member of DD Central
Listening is not the same as understanding
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Nov 1, 2020 18:21:26 GMT
I have such little faith in MT's ability to do anything that whatever they write I always doubt will happen.
So while you are entitled to want communications if they work for you, I could not give a dam for them. I just do not believe what MT tells me is going to happen, or what they are being told is going on. I have no faith that MT's borrowers have enough respect for MT to even communicate honestly with them.
The only thing that means anything to me is effective repayment of the monies I have lent.
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Post by queenvictoria on Nov 1, 2020 18:24:06 GMT
I have such little faith in MT's ability to do anything that whatever they write I always doubt will happen. So while you are entitled to want communications if they work for you, I could not give a dam for them. I just do not believe what MT tells me is going to happen, or what they are being told is going on. I have no faith that MT's borrowers have enough respect for MT to even communicate honestly with them. The only thing that means anything to me is effective repayment of the monies I have lent. Given their inability to communicate effectively I think you/we can kiss goodbye to your/our money, I am sorry to say.
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cedarcourtcapital
Member of DD Central
Listening is not the same as understanding
Posts: 190
Likes: 316
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Nov 1, 2020 21:01:43 GMT
Given their inability to communicate effectively I think you/we can kiss goodbye to your/our money, I am sorry to say. I disagree because eventually things will be taken out of MT's hands and placed with an administrator who will eventually get whatever they can for lenders. I acknowledge it may cost more, but 10% of something is better than 90% of nothing. In my opinion you are right about lenders probably going to have to take a significant haircut, but how short a cut that will be will only be determined when MT are removed or remove themselves from the picture, allowing the professionals to get to work. The real injustice is MT can delay that time while they are still earning from their woeful administration of their defaults.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 1, 2020 21:51:27 GMT
Given their inability to communicate effectively I think you/we can kiss goodbye to your/our money, I am sorry to say. I disagree because eventually things will be taken out of MT's hands and placed with an administrator who will eventually get whatever they can for lenders. I acknowledge it may cost more, but 10% of something is better than 90% of nothing. In my opinion you are right about lenders probably going to have to take a significant haircut, but how short a cut that will be will only be determined when MT are removed or remove themselves from the picture, allowing the professionals to get to work. The real injustice is MT can delay that time while they are still earning from their woeful administration of their defaults. I would never be presumptuous enough to assume where people hold investments, however sometimes if an investor is a 'specialist feeder' on one particular platform things may seem much simpler than they are. Funding secure forum would be a good read to see how things can get very complicated, and how platforms can still extract money even when administrators are effectively in control of the 'wind down'. In my case I had already locked in a small profit on there so can just let it sail on past, but it is grim reading for anybody locked in with potential losses. Lendy probably much worse (and I am well embroiled there), Collateral is the ultimate example of when all control is lost and most of your investment with it (I find the Ostrich approach, between bouts of futile action helps) It really it is a case of 'be careful what you wish for', yes the situation with MT is a long way from optimal, but not yet in the all hope lost category. Maybe a tour of the seedier areas of the forum (assuming you don't already know the situations) would give context. There is still a slim but not entirely unrealistic hope that enough MT loans will recover well enough to give a 'break even' for many and lord knows even a small profit for some. Personally I will 'suck it up' a bit longer yet, and content myself with a bit of mocking to make myself feel better until it is beyond doubt that something is salvageable. That others take a more pessimistic view, I fully understand. Edit. No longer in this particular loan, but a cameo appearance on page 9 and a few others suggest I was at some point.
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boundah
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Post by boundah on Nov 9, 2020 11:41:43 GMT
I disagree because eventually things will be taken out of MT's hands and placed with an administrator who will eventually get whatever they can for lenders. I acknowledge it may cost more, but 10% of something is better than 90% of nothing. In my opinion you are right about lenders probably going to have to take a significant haircut, but how short a cut that will be will only be determined when MT are removed or remove themselves from the picture, allowing the professionals to get to work. The real injustice is MT can delay that time while they are still earning from their woeful administration of their defaults. Lendy probably much worse (and I am well embroiled there), Collateral is the ultimate example of when all control is lost and most of your investment with it (I find the Ostrich approach, between bouts of futile action helps) ... Personally I will 'suck it up' a bit longer yet, and content myself with a bit of mocking to make myself feel better until it is beyond doubt that something is salvageable. That others take a more pessimistic view, I fully understand. I'm with you, Badly Drawn Stickman - I've seen my investments in Collateral and Lendy swallowed up by the fat fees charged by administrators who are very happy to sit back and let them roll in while doing little to get my money back. Emotions run high wrt MT's progress, but emotion without a solid rationale is unlikely to help. Also like you: I'm not expecting wholesale agreement from fellow forumites, but that's fine by me.
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seb8072
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Post by seb8072 on Nov 9, 2020 11:54:20 GMT
I disagree because eventually things will be taken out of MT's hands and placed with an administrator who will eventually get whatever they can for lenders. This is not correct. From Companies House:
If it cannot be reasonably saved, the administrator will aim to achieve a better return for creditors than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in administration).
It is unlikely this will lead to a good outcome for lenders and if it does it is more by accident than design. Lenders are not necessarily creditors.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Nov 9, 2020 13:01:32 GMT
I disagree because eventually things will be taken out of MT's hands and placed with an administrator who will eventually get whatever they can for lenders. This is not correct. From Companies House:
If it cannot be reasonably saved, the administrator will aim to achieve a better return for creditors than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in administration).
It is unlikely this will lead to a good outcome for lenders and if it does it is more by accident than design. Lenders are not necessarily creditors.
Indeed. Lenders arent creditors of MT so no benefit to them directly. The argument is that administrators will in someway be more competent at winding the loan book down ... no real evidence to support this. Administrators will be required to maximise returns to creditors so will continue to charge the fees being levied by MT and possibly more as MT are stated to be merely covering own costs, whereas admin will add additional costs to be covered. Administration are likely to make decisions to accelerate wind down which evidence suggests will result in further reduced recoveries to lenders. No evidence that administrators will be any more communicative than MT ... in fact generally less as they dont work for investors so no obligations Solvent recovery strategies are generally more successful than insolvent ones - see Abl, AC and even Lendy - but are slower.
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