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Post by df on Jul 23, 2018 20:24:40 GMT
Combining experiences with similar loans on this and other platforms, It does feel like like most of these borrowers (often described as "experienced") don't really know what they are doing. I understand that property development is complex and nothing is straight forward, but I would expect professionals to know (at least approximately) how long it will take to build and sell and how much it will cost and valuers to provide the real value of assets. MT's update was very good, I think. Informative, concise and honest. Just wondering if this would be better worded... Administrator's update was...... rather than MT's update was.... The update came from MT, if it came directly from administrators I would treat it as administrator's update.
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averageguy
Member of DD Central
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Post by averageguy on Jul 23, 2018 20:35:57 GMT
I can think of a certain company that could take that on board...name escapes me for the mo ...... I have to say "certain company's" communication has improved. It is detectable if you scroll down the updates ("no change" were very common). Introducing voting was a good move, considering growing number of disgruntled lenders. Ability to vote helps to improve sense of ownership and belonging Maybe missing ''informative''
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Post by df on Jul 23, 2018 20:37:58 GMT
Combining experiences with similar loans on this and other platforms, It does feel like like most of these borrowers (often described as "experienced") don't really know what they are doing. I understand that property development is complex and nothing is straight forward, but I would expect professionals to know (at least approximately) how long it will take to build and sell and how much it will cost and valuers to provide the real value of assets. MT's update was very good, I think. Informative, concise and honest. Give us a break; "MT's update was very good, I think. Informative, concise and honest" they have lost you 30% at best of your investment by their own incompetence in not managing the loan from the start, is it that difficult? nor able to provide regular, concise updates. The borrower for this one is the same for the south coast student accommodation, the administrator the same, the first option was speculative designed to make the others attractive; a better solution would have been a tender for the purchase of the site as is. Me; I am disgusted with MT and yes we know you read this forum;........clueless.........avoid This loan is a small part of my investment on MT. Most of MT loans perform well and losses like this have little effect on overall performance of my funds on MT.
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averageguy
Member of DD Central
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Post by averageguy on Jul 23, 2018 20:41:12 GMT
Give us a break; "MT's update was very good, I think. Informative, concise and honest" they have lost you 30% at best of your investment by their own incompetence in not managing the loan from the start, is it that difficult? nor able to provide regular, concise updates. The borrower for this one is the same for the south coast student accommodation, the administrator the same, the first option was speculative designed to make the others attractive; a better solution would have been a tender for the purchase of the site as is. Me; I am disgusted with MT and yes we know you read this forum;........clueless.........avoid This loan is a small part of my investment on MT. Most of MT loans perform well and losses like this have little effect on overall performance of my funds on MT. Surely that cant be so....they are clueless after all
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johni
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Post by johni on Jul 23, 2018 21:28:04 GMT
Combining experiences with similar loans on this and other platforms, It does feel like like most of these borrowers (often described as "experienced") don't really know what they are doing. I understand that property development is complex and nothing is straight forward, but I would expect professionals to know (at least approximately) how long it will take to build and sell and how much it will cost and valuers to provide the real value of assets. MT's update was very good, I think. Informative, concise and honest. Give us a break; "MT's update was very good, I think. Informative, concise and honest" they have lost you 30% at best of your investment by their own incompetence in not managing the loan from the start, is it that difficult? nor able to provide regular, concise updates. The borrower for this one is the same for the south coast student accommodation, the administrator the same, the first option was speculative designed to make the others attractive; a better solution would have been a tender for the purchase of the site as is. Me; I am disgusted with MT and yes we know you read this forum;........clueless.........avoid Having been lending on Moneything for over 2 years I have made more than I have lost. Blaming Moneything the way you have is totally unacceptable yes the are questions to be answered of the Valuers. QS. building control. P2P is a high risk investment with the chance of loses. You clearly have failed to read the warnings. Any loss hurts but fact is every P2P site will have losses the end game is how much is recovered when all avenues have been concluded. This maybe 2 years from now. Hopefully it will be alot less than first appears.
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Post by quidsaveblue2003 on Jul 23, 2018 23:36:17 GMT
The administrators proposals document is now available at Companies House. Summarising what I think are the main points: - Document dated 13th April 18, issued to creditors on 17th April 18 - Loans to Boll****** and Plymouth 1 are cross guaranteed, and the cross-guarantee takes precedence over the 2nd charge loan on Plymouth 1 (para 6.1)- Site was purchased May 2016 for £620k (para 3) <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="7.399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 24.200000000000045px; height: 7.399999999999977px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_41858465" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="7.399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 7.4px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_78697640" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="7.399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 7.4px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 210px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_73851238" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="7.399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 7.4px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: 210px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_3415994" scrolling="no"></iframe> n Any one who knows this? where to find the report on company house website please does the cross guarantee means, if this loan has a shortfall after all recovery routes, but other 2 Plymouth loans wins, then the extra funding of 2 Plymouth would offset the Boll****** shortfalls
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Kyrios
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Post by Kyrios on Jul 24, 2018 8:27:52 GMT
Give us a break; "MT's update was very good, I think. Informative, concise and honest" they have lost you 30% at best of your investment by their own incompetence in not managing the loan from the start, is it that difficult? nor able to provide regular, concise updates. The borrower for this one is the same for the south coast student accommodation, the administrator the same, the first option was speculative designed to make the others attractive; a better solution would have been a tender for the purchase of the site as is. Me; I am disgusted with MT and yes we know you read this forum;........clueless.........avoid Having been lending on Moneything for over 2 years I have made more than I have lost. Blaming Moneything the way you have is totally unacceptable yes the are questions to be answered of the Valuers. QS. building control. P2P is a high risk investment with the chance of loses. You clearly have failed to read the warnings. Any loss hurts but fact is every P2P site will have losses the end game is how much is recovered when all avenues have been concluded. This maybe 2 years from now. Hopefully it will be alot less than first appears. I agree to disagree. Yes, P2P is a risky investment. When it comes to development finance, we know you can have overruns, you can also have a market crash, etc... THAT IS THE RISK. As far as I know, there has not been any market crash (yet). Publicising 8 months ago a valuation of £2,870,000 to raise a further tranche of cash, before being told now it's worth £750,000, what do you call that ? Risk ? Are you joking ?
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m2btj
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Post by m2btj on Jul 24, 2018 8:36:12 GMT
I'd like to see P2P platforms aligning valuations to distress sale values! Some of the valuations I have seen are plainly absurd & always assume a perfect development/sales scenario. In reality, bridging & development is fraught with risk & the auction sales room is the true arbiter of value!
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Jul 24, 2018 8:53:50 GMT
I'd like to see P2P platforms aligning valuations to distress sale values! Some of the valuations I have seen are plainly absurd & always assume a perfect development/sales scenario. In reality, bridging & development is fraught with risk & the auction sales room is the true arbiter of value! That is very true for lenders (who should machete 90D val’s for their default risk assessment) although we’d be left with no investments as developers would get no funding based on ltv’s of an auction room. Edit - x’d with SteveT
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Jul 24, 2018 8:58:33 GMT
I'd like to see P2P platforms aligning valuations to distress sale values! Some of the valuations I have seen are plainly absurd & always assume a perfect development/sales scenario. In reality, bridging & development is fraught with risk & the auction sales room is the true arbiter of value! Why can't you simply make that allowance / adjustment yourself? The whole point of high-rate, high-risk lending is that you make good money on loans that don't go bad and likely lose money on those that do. If you're careful and well diversified, the former hopefully outweighs the latter. If you want to quantify how much you're likely to lose if/when a particular loan goes bad, try simply halving the non-distressed "market value" to arrive at a crude "fire-sale valuation" (it's as good a rule of thumb as any) and look at what that does to the LTV. Then decide how much exposure you want to take on at that level of risk. I have to chuckle at those posting their shock and despair at a P2P development loan going badly enough off the rails to lose them money, then compounding this by selling off their performing loans as a knee-jerk reaction. All this shows is that they didn't understand what they were getting into in the first place, despite the myriad risk warnings on platforms, in T&Cs, within loan descriptions and repeatedly across this forum.
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derbyfella
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Post by derbyfella on Jul 24, 2018 9:37:37 GMT
Having been lending on Moneything for over 2 years I have made more than I have lost. Blaming Moneything the way you have is totally unacceptable yes the are questions to be answered of the Valuers. QS. building control. P2P is a high risk investment with the chance of loses. You clearly have failed to read the warnings. Any loss hurts but fact is every P2P site will have losses the end game is how much is recovered when all avenues have been concluded. This maybe 2 years from now. Hopefully it will be alot less than first appears. I agree to disagree. Yes, P2P is a risky investment. When it comes to development finance, we know you can have overruns, you can also have a market crash, etc... THAT IS THE RISK. As far as I know, there has not been any market crash (yet). Publicising 8 months ago a valuation of £2,870,000 to raise a further tranche of cash, before being told now it's worth £750,000, what do you call that ? Risk ? Are you joking ? It isn't worth 750k. I could make an offer tomorrow for £1, that doesn't make the site worth £1 it just means an offer was made for £1
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empirica
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Post by empirica on Jul 24, 2018 10:16:21 GMT
Any one who knows this? where to find the report on company house website please does the cross guarantee means, if this loan has a shortfall after all recovery routes, but other 2 Plymouth loans wins, then the extra funding of 2 Plymouth would offset the Boll****** shortfalls Search the Companies House website for Pr ******* Pr ****** D *********** (the company number ends 7427, so you'll know you have the right company), go to the 'Filing history' tab, look for the Administrator's proposal dated 27/04/18 and click 'View PDF'. As for the cross-collateral question, I read this as the order of payout on disposal (after costs) of Plymouth '1' (MTAS844) as: 1st - MTAS844 2nd - MTAS933 (this one) 3rd - the 2nd charge against the security for MTAS844 (non-MT related) but I've not studied this in detail, so others may wish to clarify. However, looking at the build out costing for Plymouth (MTAS844), I note that the ' best case' is £240k surplus and the 'worst' case a £200k deficit, suggesting a 'likely' case of break-even. However, that doesn't consider any accrued interest _ which is increasing as the build continues _ so I very much doubt there'll be any surplus funds heading in this loan's direction which would subsequently make the cross-collateralisation and order of charges irrelevant.
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Post by funkymonkey on Jul 24, 2018 10:42:21 GMT
Having been lending on Moneything for over 2 years I have made more than I have lost. Blaming Moneything the way you have is totally unacceptable yes the are questions to be answered of the Valuers. QS. building control. P2P is a high risk investment with the chance of loses. You clearly have failed to read the warnings. Any loss hurts but fact is every P2P site will have losses the end game is how much is recovered when all avenues have been concluded. This maybe 2 years from now. Hopefully it will be alot less than first appears. I agree to disagree. Yes, P2P is a risky investment. When it comes to development finance, we know you can have overruns, you can also have a market crash, etc... THAT IS THE RISK. As far as I know, there has not been any market crash (yet). Publicising 8 months ago a valuation of £2,870,000 to raise a further tranche of cash, before being told now it's worth £750,000, what do you call that ? Risk ? Are you joking ? It's not worth £750000, that's what one person is willing to pay at this point in time. I presume the previous valuations make certain assumptions such as the building work being of a standard to meet building regs. The report gives no indication as to when the substandard work was carried out. It could well have been after the last valuation....
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dovap
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Post by dovap on Jul 24, 2018 12:21:59 GMT
how bizarre - so the offers received aren't actually what the site is worth presumably there's another way to determine the true value ?
also odd the thought of a couple of weeks of shoddy workmanship/materials has knocked £2mill off the 'value' - however you determine that. (It would be most unusual for a builder to rubbish the work of a previous builder when putting together their remedial quote)
I guess care should be taken when selling off the performing loans in reaction to this performing loan no longer performing still that's the high risk cobblers you get for you 10%
Loads of questions but some seem to think that MT aren't responsible for any of them ho hum
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coop
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Post by coop on Jul 24, 2018 14:33:21 GMT
Hmm. Not sure what is hard to grasp about £750k being a lowball offer... I sell records online; if someone offers me £20 for a £100 record it doesn't mean they have reduced the value of my record by £80; it just means they don't get to buy it
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