goofy115
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Post by goofy115 on Dec 27, 2017 15:01:12 GMT
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m2btj
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Post by m2btj on Dec 27, 2017 15:12:29 GMT
There isn't a builder in the country that hasn't had an HSE notice issued at some point.
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slush
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Here to learn. Please be gentle.
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Post by slush on Dec 27, 2017 16:11:02 GMT
No, it isn't - they are minor issues (and only 2), easy to resolve and I would be (very) surprised if they haven't already been resolved (and quickly after the Enforcement Notices) HSE notes are not unusual; if there was long list dropping off the bottom of the page, then I would be worried. The rush to the exit on such a (IMO) insignificant observation was... amazing. That's the herd for you. I quite agree. Enforcement Notices are usally easy fix if everyone plays ball. If there had been any Prohibition Notices issued that would have been far more worrying.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 27, 2017 20:14:07 GMT
As an experienced construction site manager, I've seen an HSE inspector on my sites about once in the last 25 years. They are chronically underfunded, and rarer than hens teeth.
If HSE are not happy with your site then they have 2 weapons in their arsenal. They can issue an improvement notice (which requires a certain aspect of the site to be improved) or a prohibition notice (which requires immediate correction of the offending item). Work can continue while complying with the improvement notice, but any work covered by the prohibition notice must stop, until suitable corrective action has been taken.
This site appears to have 2 improvement notices served (failure to provide hot running water in the toilets, and failure to control exposure to silica dust) and 2 prohibition notices (both relating to failure to protect the workforce from falling from heights). You would have thought that all these items were fairly easy to rectify.
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Post by mrclondon on Dec 27, 2017 23:43:28 GMT
[Admin Note]
I've just merged the two threads on this loan together. I think all the recent posts still make sense but the flow earlier in the thread may have been slightly disturbed.
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Post by mrclondon on Dec 27, 2017 23:58:06 GMT
I wonder why there is so much of this loan for sale. No negative update. Is it just size? I suspect its a combination of the the HSE Enforcement notices whhich by themselves should have been ovecome relatively quickly with these posts on observed progress that has caused concern. Co-incidentally I was in the area and stopped by the site on 2nd November (updated valuation is for the 3rd). To me it also looked well behind schedule with not much visible progress from the pictures in May. Phase 1 is nowhere near completion. Also, even though it was mid-afternoon there was no-one at all on site. I am beginning to become concerned at MT's lack of oversight / monitoring of their development sites. Bringing the discussion back down to earth, as it were: None of these are on Rightmove or on the agent's website. Progress on site seems to have fallen off a cliff. The clock is ticking, interest charges are mounting, none of the first phase of houses has exchanged. Was the first tranche of buyers hoping to be in by Christmas?? My understanding was that the 5 are 'reserved' but not exchanged and the sixth, although partially built is not even being marketed. Normally they would stay on the Agent website and on Rightmove and are listed as SSTC. In this case it appears there is no certainty as to when any exchange may take place and the decision has been taken to remove the development as a whole from any sales publicity. If the first six were 'almost ready' they could be used to showcase what the remaining four might be like when building gets going (if it does) in the spring. Such 'advance publicity' for phased developments is not unusual. In this case, as I understood it, the shutters have come down. Its also worth noting that in the detail behind the HSE prohibition notices a breach of CDM regulations was mentioned alongside breaches of the more general Health & Safety at Work Act. CDM (Construction and Design Management) is about documenting in advance exactly how the development will be managed from a Health & Safety angle. The breach noted by the HSE could be be minor, for example the HSE might feel the working at height risk analysis in the CDM documents was weak, or it could be more fundamantal and need many hours of professional input to create a new CDM document set.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 28, 2017 14:33:12 GMT
CDM (Construction and Design Management) is about documenting in advance exactly how the development will be managed from a Health & Safety angle. The Construction Design and Management regulations came into effect in 1996, and place health and safety obligations on everyone involved with a construction contract. In the pre-construction phase the regulations require the client to appoint a designer and a CDM Co-coordinator. They put together a pre-construction information pack, that gives contractors tendering for the work information about health and safety risks associated with the site itself (for example contaminated ground), or the construction works themselves (for example working at height). The regulations require the client to give the successful contractor a reasonable period of time to mobilise before work commences. The successful contractor incorporates the pre-construction information into his construction phase health and safety plan. The plan details how health and safety will be managed on site, and contains sections including the provision of welfare facilities, management of risk and communication between all interested parties. The plan does not need to be complete before work starts, but the CDMC must confirm to the client that it is sufficiently developed before the client can allow work to commence. - The only reference to CDM that I can see on the HSE site refers to a breach of schedule 2. This deals specifically with the provision of adequate welfare facilities
- Given that the site contains 2/3 storey buildings it is difficult to believe that the prohibition notices relating to working at height couldn't be promptly rectified. The issue is probably that either that operatives could fall off the access scaffold, or possibly people erecting roof trusses could fall into the void in the center of the building. Either way these are common risks with well known solutions.
I'm in a couple of these tranches, but would be more concerned about the reported lack of resources than any long term effect of the HSE visit.
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drgonzo
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Post by drgonzo on Dec 28, 2017 14:47:13 GMT
Agree with most of the above, in that the HSE notices are nothing to be concerned about - has there ever been a HSE site visit where they didn't raise a single thing?!?
The development is clearly behind schedule (quite how far behind is still unclear), which is probably the main reason for the SM availability. MT have already flagged up the possibility of an extension being required in their November update, so I'm not bailing on this one just yet!
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Dec 28, 2017 16:13:43 GMT
Oh I don't know, Doctor Gonzo. Once these H&S police start sniffing about... Anyway, have you herd the story about the ones that jumped the fence? The grass was greener (well it looked greener), so quite happy to leave the rest of the flock munching contentedly. Happy New Year when it comes, and may that sweet spring rain make the grass grow on both sides...
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m2btj
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Post by m2btj on Dec 28, 2017 17:23:20 GMT
This news isn't going to send me into a panic selling frenzy! If the situation becomes a cause for concern I'm sure that MT can appoint a monitoring surveyor to ensure that the development gets back on track.
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Post by elephantrosie on Dec 28, 2017 21:17:11 GMT
shame. MT used to be such a great platform. now we all get twitchy with the slightest update.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Dec 28, 2017 22:01:43 GMT
shame. MT used to be such a great platform. now we all get twitchy with the slightest update. To be fair, I think the problem lies to a large degree with the platform users rather than the platform. Too many people invest in P2P without accepting the "high" risk. Only those with a willingness and ability to take the risk should be investing. Given some people invest 50 pounds or less per loan and panic at the thought of losing that kind of amount, they probably shouldn't be investing.
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robski
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Post by robski on Dec 29, 2017 0:02:02 GMT
shame. MT used to be such a great platform. now we all get twitchy with the slightest update. To be fair, I think the problem lies to a large degree with the platform users rather than the platform. Too many people invest in P2P without accepting the "high" risk. Only those with a willingness and ability to take the risk should be investing. Given some people invest 50 pounds or less per loan and panic at the thought of losing that kind of amount, they probably shouldn't be investing. The sorts of sums that end up on the SM aren't coming from people selling £50 lots.
I would say appetite for loss doesn't increase with investment size.
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treeman
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Post by treeman on Dec 29, 2017 11:29:38 GMT
A £50k purchase on Bolly T1 this morning
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 29, 2017 11:49:27 GMT
A £50k purchase on Bolly T1 this morning Maybe it was the HSE inspector?
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