rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Nov 22, 2018 17:13:27 GMT
Many thanks for your concerned input to the grammatical issues here - it is noted, but rejected.
Regrettably, only one person so far has actually addressed the question I asked - perhaps that is too difficult or might risk putting MT in something other than a 'saintly' light?
[Grammatical arguments deleted]... I'm not sure anyone is trying to portray MT as 'saintly'. From my reading, they are simply pointing out that MT did not represent the repayment strategy as a cast-iron guarantee, but rather as an expectation. Many loans propose a repayment strategy that proves over-optimistic, but I'm pretty certain these would not be construed as 'mis-selling' in a court. But you're of course welcome to try - good luck with that. boundah: Many thanks for your response which I feel is the first one I've read today which is edging towards any acceptance that MT might make mistakes? This I can relate to and even accept - none of us gets it correct every time. However, if MT got it wrong here (and let's for a moment think that unthinkable) then it seems that I am the one expected to carry the consequences of that error, have no realistic avenue of redress and to add insult to injury I am trapped into the situation potentially in perpetuity? Now saying I'm still receiving interest is true - but it's not the point - I want access to the funds which as a consequence of this loan being extended multiple times I cannot have. I'm also sure some would say P2P is consequently not for me - and I would wholeheartedly agree (and I've been in P2P some four years now and I'm certainly not the only one who's decided enough is enough) - but this is the Hotel California of loans - you can check in but you can't leave. Finally, talking of 'expectations' - I expected to get my money back at the end of the loan - see where that got me, as it seems it actually has no end after all - just an 'expectation' that it will end!?
Maybe all P2P loans ought to be caveated with a 'health warning' - something like 'Whilst you might think you are entering into a formal contract please be aware that whatever the loan proposal might say it's really only guesswork so don't take it seriously. Furthermore, once we've pocketed your cash don't expect it back until we decide when you'll get it back - and that might be a lot, lot longer than you ever 'expected' - if ever'.
Still, could be worse, we could have a government who are utterly hapless eh!?
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 22, 2018 17:37:31 GMT
Some fair points. However, your loan contract is with the borrower, not the platform, and it is the borrower who both indicated the repayment strategy at the outset and then failed to deliver on it.
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boundah
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Post by boundah on Nov 22, 2018 17:45:39 GMT
.. if MT got it wrong here (and let's for a moment think that unthinkable) then it seems that I am the one expected to carry the consequences of that error... I expected to get my money back at the end of the loan - see where that got me, as it seems it actually has no end after all - just an 'expectation' that it will end!?
Now you're getting the hang of how P2P works. If you want a cast-iron guarantee of capital + interest when you need it I suggest you look at putting your money into a building society instant-access account paying 0.5%.
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Nov 22, 2018 18:17:19 GMT
Now you're getting the hang of how P2P works. If you want a cast-iron guarantee of capital + interest when you need it I suggest you look at putting your money into a building society instant-access account paying 0.5%. Oh boundah, and you were doing soooo well until now!! Then you had to go and spoil it all with that banal comment which I must have seen at least a zillion times or so before - and which is usually the last refuge and retreat of those who can't think of anything original to say.
No, it will be the stock market where I will increase my portfolio - and say you might about the current situation - but there is one clear point of differentiation between listed shares and P2P. As yet I have never, without exception, been unable to sell a share at a time and date (within business hours) of MY choosing - and say au revoir for whatever reason.
It feels a bit like a mini BREXIT moving funds from P2P back to the stock market - insofar as I'll be regaining sovereignty over my money (now there's a hand grenade with the pin out for you!!).
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Nov 22, 2018 18:23:03 GMT
Some fair points. However, your loan contract is with the borrower, not the platform, and it is the borrower who both indicated the repayment strategy at the outset and then failed to deliver on it. A point I concede - but it was MT who presented the loan proposal on their platform on which I made my decision and consequently I consider 'sold' me the loan. I'm sure there will be a legal definition - but I simply want 'out of Dodge' (or was that Dodgy?).
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Nov 22, 2018 18:37:43 GMT
Tad chilly out ...but the suns quite nice Maybe you should wear some more protection to keep the 'chilly winds' at bay?
No sun here - just gloom!!
P.S. The word 'suns' should be spelled 'sun's' in the context you use it - meaning 'of the sun', not sun in the plural - just saying.
It wouldn't change it being chilly out though......would it?...just saying PS I do!
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boundah
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Post by boundah on Nov 22, 2018 18:39:34 GMT
Now you're getting the hang of how P2P works. If you want a cast-iron guarantee of capital + interest when you need it I suggest you look at
No, it will be the stock market where I will increase my portfolio - and say you might about the current situation - but there is one clear point of differentiation between listed shares and P2P. As yet I have never, without exception, been unable to sell a share at a time and date (within business hours) of MY choosing - and say au revoir for whatever reason. Probably a good idea. Clearly P2P isn't for you - I'm a little surprised you got into it in the first place.
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Nov 22, 2018 18:43:15 GMT
No, it will be the stock market where I will increase my portfolio - and say you might about the current situation - but there is one clear point of differentiation between listed shares and P2P. As yet I have never, without exception, been unable to sell a share at a time and date (within business hours) of MY choosing - and say au revoir for whatever reason. Probably a good idea. Clearly P2P isn't for you - I'm a little surprised you got into it in the first place. P2P was a good place to be in the early days but it's been a downhill slope for some time - I should have got out a year ago (but that's hindsight for you).
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Nov 22, 2018 18:58:46 GMT
Maybe you should wear some more protection to keep the 'chilly winds' at bay?
No sun here - just gloom!!
P.S. The word 'suns' should be spelled 'sun's' in the context you use it - meaning 'of the sun', not sun in the plural - just saying.
It wouldn't change it being chilly out though......would it?...just saying PS I do! I've just had a deja-vous moment when I reread your post - and was suddenly reminded of that old Morecambe and Wise joke:
'Ernie: It's a bit chilly out - Eric: Yes, but you better put it away before anybody sees it!'
Made my day that - have a nice evening averageguy.
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Nov 22, 2018 19:15:47 GMT
It wouldn't change it being chilly out though......would it?...just saying PS I do! I've just had a deja-vous moment when I reread your post - and was suddenly reminded of that old Morecambe and Wise joke:
'Ernie: It's a bit chilly out - Eric: Yes, but you better put it away before anybody sees it!'
Made my day that - have a nice evening averageguy.
Eric and Ernie ...happy days...bring me sunshine ....
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johni
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Post by johni on Nov 22, 2018 21:41:35 GMT
When this loan was taken it was envisaged the units would sell they didn't. So the developer looked to amend the plans to try to make them more saleable. This required a planning change (not moneything's fault or do they have any control of) would you allow a business to try to make them more appealing or would you foreclose? To refinance isn't a quick job especially with the amount of finance required. Not everything is straight forward or goes to plan in life. There is offers for defiance so an exit plan is in place just not to your timescales.
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Nov 23, 2018 8:18:00 GMT
When this loan was taken it was envisaged the units would sell they didn't. So the developer looked to amend the plans to try to make them more saleable. This required a planning change (not moneything's fault or do they have any control of) would you allow a business to try to make them more appealing or would you foreclose? To refinance isn't a quick job especially with the amount of finance required. Not everything is straight forward or goes to plan in life. There is offers for defiance so an exit plan is in place just not to your timescales. Thanks for that johni - and I suggest it reinforces my previous suggestion that P2P loans should come with a 'health warning' - my earlier suggestion was:
'Whilst you might think you are entering into a formal contract please be aware that whatever the loan proposal might say it's really only guesswork so don't take it seriously. Furthermore, once we've pocketed your cash don't expect it back until we decide when you'll get it back - and that might be a lot, lot longer than you ever expected - if ever'.
Only a rough draft - but it does rather seem to fit the bill here methinks!?
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 23, 2018 8:35:28 GMT
Various people, me included, have been posting that very warning on the forum for several years now, albeit in politer form. Don't invest in p2p what you can't afford to lose, or, best case, do without access to for 5 years (or more).
Most people, at the time (and some even today) were more worried about how to beat recaptcha, or write a bot, to get bigger slices of high rate loans.
Sometimes, having taken the horse to water, you just have to watch it drown itself.
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Nov 23, 2018 9:24:36 GMT
Various people, me included, have been posting that very warning on the forum for several years now, albeit in politer form. Don't invest in p2p what you can't afford to lose, or, best case, do without access to for 5 years (or more).
Most people, at the time (and some even today) were more worried about how to beat recaptcha, or write a bot, to get bigger slices of high rate loans.
Sometimes, having taken the horse to water, you just have to watch it drown itself.
Yes GSV3MIaC - I'm aware you've been around for a long time and indeed you have been offering warnings - which have not always been welcome or heeded by some (many?). I think the difference now is that the relative euphoria and early success of P2P (and I made a lot of money in the early days - and had fun doing so) has now been totally muted and reversed by those very chickens you allude to coming home to roost - big style. The number of defaults and delays seem to have increased exponentially - or maybe it's just that there are more players in town - and some of them significantly less than salubrious (not MT I hasten to add - wouldn't want to be accused of blasphemy eh!?). Consequently, as the returns have decreased dramatically (15% was quite normal in the early days as you'll remember) and the risks of defaults and delays have increased significantly (or so it seems to me - I had very few defaults for the first couple of years) it has now become crystal clear to this investor that P2P is no longer a healthy place for retail investors, even relatively sophisticated ones (seems maybe so for II's too looking at FC's current share price?).
There is no doubt whatsoever that P2P platforms are all struggling to attract lenders - early days saw us all fighting to grab a slice of lucrative loans - the reciprocal appears to be the case now. Furthermore, trust has been seriously eroded between investors and platforms (Col was probably the final nail in that coffin) - and that's often if not always irrevocable.
In conclusion, I don't see a bright future for P2P - word has a habit of getting around and once folks have their suspicions raised about a sector it often becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy thereafter.
Incidentally, I do like your comment about horse and water - a clever twist on an old saying.
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sarahcount
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Post by sarahcount on Nov 23, 2018 11:14:27 GMT
Very true - but I suspect I'll have to be quick if I don't want to find myself at the end of another long queue (circa £217K currently want out at par - a queue going nowhere fast - the word 'glacial' springs to mind) - be interesting to see how many want out at a discount (I certainly know of at least one!). You’ll be free to go to the head of the queue whenever you choose, simply by offering the best price available. 🙂 Having just come through the Liverpool SM glacier and out the other end I'm just pleased that I've finally managed to sell a stake in my holding at par.
While I support the idea of discounting I do feel for people near the top of the current queue who may get bumped down once discounting is introduced.
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