hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Feb 14, 2020 22:34:05 GMT
Looking at the estimated cost of the rent guarantees on the units (Net c. 21% of our capital after allowing for trading profit and admin cost) I think you may have been right. (This cost was not included in the 2018 estimates.) Originally the administrators estimated 900k net if the property was sold rather than them completing the development. I would have rather taken 50 - 75% loss and had my money back working elsewhere. Probably another reason why P2P isn’t for me.
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cedarcourtcapital
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Feb 15, 2020 10:19:36 GMT
We all think MT are 'nice' people because of they way they ran their platform in the good days. However while that probably remains true, they are certainly not capable of making good decisions when it comes to defaults, preferring to put the problem off until a later date. When they had a viable platform, they all too often made the easiest decision for their platform, and hoped this coincided with what was best for their lenders.
I hope now they are closing down they will act to conclude things are quickly as possible. Anyone who thinks waiting will bring a better return is deluded. Anything that takes time involves administrators, their fees and expenses which erode any capital return. The sentiment of the previous post is spot on in my opinion.
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copacetic
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Post by copacetic on Feb 15, 2020 11:51:49 GMT
We all think MT are 'nice' people because of they way they ran their platform in the good days. However while that probably remains true, they are certainly not capable of making good decisions when it comes to defaults, preferring to put the problem off until a later date. When they had a viable platform, they all too often made the easiest decision for their platform, and hoped this coincided with what was best for their lenders. I hope now they are closing down they will act to conclude things are quickly as possible. Anyone who thinks waiting will bring a better return is deluded. Anything that takes time involves administrators, their fees and expenses which rode any capital return. The sentiment of the previous last post is spot on in my opinion.
Easy to say with the benefit of hindsight. If MT had sold the property at a fire sale price when admins had recommended build out being the more profitable option then they would have been lambasted on here too. Running a recovery on defaulted P2P is a case of d***ed if you do d***ed if you don't if you can't recover all the capital and interest a day after it's due. I would also argue the headache of a build out is far from the easiest decision for the platform.
I agree with you on anything involving administrators however. Platforms and P2P lenders would do well to be aware that they are for the most part vultures who will underestimate costs initially to get the business then screw you later. I for one am glad MT are winding down the platform themselves when it might be easier to walk away and leave it in the hands of administrators like Lendy or FS.
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starfished
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Post by starfished on Feb 15, 2020 13:33:44 GMT
Why would they hand over the wind down to an administrator, when they can stay in place and get regular abuse for their efforts?
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on May 7, 2020 22:57:43 GMT
Now that the student flat sector is likely to be stalled and international students are not going to be coming to the UK this autumn in the same numbers, it may well be difficult to sell what's left for quite a long time. In the circumstances I think an interim repayment to long suffering investors should be arranged.
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cedarcourtcapital
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on May 8, 2020 9:48:51 GMT
Why would they hand over the wind down to an administrator, when they can stay in place and get regular abuse for their efforts? Maybe because of the fees they can charged lenders.
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Jaydee
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Post by Jaydee on May 8, 2020 11:16:38 GMT
Now that the student flat sector is likely to be stalled and international students are not going to be coming to the UK this autumn in the same numbers, it may well be difficult to sell what's left for quite a long time. In the circumstances I think an interim repayment to long suffering investors should be arranged. Looking at the last report / update, I doubt if lenders will get any capital back. It's all going to be eaten up by build out costs and Administrators fees.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 8, 2020 13:01:15 GMT
Now that the student flat sector is likely to be stalled and international students are not going to be coming to the UK this autumn in the same numbers, it may well be difficult to sell what's left for quite a long time. In the circumstances I think an interim repayment to long suffering investors should be arranged. Looking at the last report / update, I doubt if lenders will get any capital back. It's all going to be eaten up by build out costs and Administrators fees. Build out costs have been repaid, admin fees appear to be capped & covered by cash in the bank so proceeds from sales should be available to be paid out to lenders, still 25 flats to sell IIRC
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Jaydee
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Post by Jaydee on May 9, 2020 10:08:31 GMT
Looking at the last report / update, I doubt if lenders will get any capital back. It's all going to be eaten up by build out costs and Administrators fees. Build out costs have been repaid, admin fees appear to be capped & covered by cash in the bank so proceeds from sales should be available to be paid out to lenders, still 25 flats to sell IIRC At the time of the last update, 13 units remained to be sold. AIUI, 6 have been sold. There are ongoing Admin fees and Rental Guarantee fees being incurred, along with maintenance costs etc. However, looking at the latest Report shows the following position compared to the Report issued when the decision was made to build out the project. Net Realisations is down by £457k Costs are up by £843k (a staggering increase that is beyond belief) The Net Return is therefore down by £1300k The Net return to lenders is forecast to be £862k, representing a return of 45% on capital IF there are no "unforeseen" additional costs. Based on past experience on this and other MT build out decisions this is highly unlikely.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on May 9, 2020 11:05:00 GMT
Build out costs have been repaid, admin fees appear to be capped & covered by cash in the bank so proceeds from sales should be available to be paid out to lenders, still 25 flats to sell IIRC At the time of the last update, 13 units remained to be sold. AIUI, 6 have been sold. There are ongoing Admin fees and Rental Guarantee fees being incurred, along with maintenance costs etc. However, looking at the latest Report shows the following position compared to the Report issued when the decision was made to build out the project. Net Realisations is down by £457k Costs are up by £843k (a staggering increase that is beyond belief) The Net Return is therefore down by £1300k The Net return to lenders is forecast to be £862k, representing a return of 45% on capital IF there are no "unforeseen" additional costs. Based on past experience on this and other MT build out decisions this is highly unlikely. I was looking at the numbers in the Feb 20 admin report as the latest info, though I did misread the number of unit sales. I am struggling to reconcile the two sets of figures.
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starfished
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Post by starfished on May 9, 2020 11:46:24 GMT
Why would they hand over the wind down to an administrator, when they can stay in place and get regular abuse for their efforts? Maybe because of the fees they can charged lenders. I can't speak for Moneything at all but I personally certainly wouldn't do it for the level of fees being discussed. While I have never been close to administration type work, I have been close to other compliance/close down type activity, its bureaucratic, painful and consumes a hell of a lot of the time. Have Moneything made some mistakes? Ofcourse. But who hasn't? I also suspect they have paid more for those mistakes than some here care to admit. Not many people set up a business and are happy to see it fail.
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cedarcourtcapital
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on May 10, 2020 15:26:06 GMT
starfished... If you are making your comments with the benefit of having read what has gone on on other defaults, I cannot understand your thinking, but you are certainly entitled to voice and hold your stated opinion.
If you have read the other threads, especially the one where they charged greater than £100,000 for their administration of a default, which meant increasing an already huge financial loss for lenders, I did not understand how you could feel your comments are valid.
At present I suspect MT is now virtually a two person operation. So £100,000 already charged to lenders on just one of their defaults, with others to 'charge' in the future, seems like a good position that many people might like to be in, as opposed go four suggestion that MT are suffering.
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jcm9000
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Post by jcm9000 on Aug 6, 2020 11:32:54 GMT
Looks like another two units sold (or "complete shortly"), further update on site. Only, what, four left? What happens when they go...
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Post by Companion Cube on Aug 6, 2020 14:07:12 GMT
Well that is good news but I still don't understand why an interim payment can't be made to us lenders. Who's sitting on our money and why?
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cedarcourtcapital
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Post by cedarcourtcapital on Aug 7, 2020 8:29:45 GMT
Well that is good news but I still don't understand why an interim payment can't be made to us lenders. Who's sitting on our money and why? When MT finally charge lenders for their 'administrative' services, where do you think that money will come from if they have released all the funds back to the lenders? I am sure that answers why no interim payment has been made.
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