agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 17, 2018 17:27:12 GMT
Err the plumbers drilled holes in the pipes so they weren’t in working order But if they hadn't been paid (and if the materials were supplied by the plumbers) then the pipes belong to the plumbers. Unfortunately not the case
Most standard forms of construction subcontract state that ownership of the goods passes to the developer once they are incorporated into the main works. Payment (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with it.
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oik
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Post by oik on Sept 17, 2018 17:38:59 GMT
Maybe not everyone shares your touching faith in the legal system I understand that sentiment and to some extent sympathise: problem is that the alternative often doesn't work too well either.
In this case the plumbers aren't any better off and the borrower isn't any worse off. The cost will likely fall on the lenders who by providing the finance are an important link in creating such work. Would the plumbers gain any satisfaction by knowing they'd hit Monything lenders, in many cases with only small amounts to lend; I doubt it.
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sirius
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Post by sirius on Sept 17, 2018 17:42:59 GMT
I recall a case I was on when doing jury service. Builders put in a new shop front. The owner did not pay them. They went round with hammers and knocked the front out. They ended up doing time.
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Post by funkymonkey on Sept 17, 2018 17:46:49 GMT
But if they hadn't been paid (and if the materials were supplied by the plumbers) then the pipes belong to the plumbers. You cannot criminally damage your own property. I think it’s fair to say - per ‘average man in the street’ court test - that the plumbers intended damage to other people’s property (even if they were willing to sacrifice their own): Criminal property damage: By section 1(1) of the Act: A person who destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence. I wasn't aware of this court test, my mistake!
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Sept 17, 2018 17:51:44 GMT
I think it’s fair to say - per ‘average man in the street’ court test - that the plumbers intended damage to other people’s property (even if they were willing to sacrifice their own): Criminal property damage: By section 1(1) of the Act: A person who destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence. I wasn't aware of this court test, my mistake! Yes, that is your mistake. Unless you know it as the reasonable man test. I found my legal exams very easy (just rote learning): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Sept 17, 2018 18:13:35 GMT
I would imagine he would say spivs should be pursued through the legal system as anyone else should be (for the avoidance of doubt, I do not write the law, I’m just telling you what it is). Maybe not everyone shares your touching faith in the legal system The rest of the world seems to think so, English law is the most externally used legal system in the world (and a great foreign exchange earner to boot). Try living in a country where corruption is endemic and that may wipe away your stupid sarcasm.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2018 3:14:04 GMT
The rest of the world seems to think so, English law is the most externally used legal system in the world Ah yes, the legal system we spread by gunboat. The joys of post-colonial legacy. It certainly is a system that enriches lawyers, administrators and others who like to work the system. Maybe there will be a few pennies left over once the vultures have finished picking at the carcass.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Sept 18, 2018 3:18:02 GMT
The rest of the world seems to think so, English law is the most externally used legal system in the world Ah yes, the legal system we spread by gunboat. The joys of post-colonial legacy. It certainly is a system that enriches lawyers, administrators and others who like to work the system. Maybe there will be a few pennies left over once the vultures have finished picking at the carcass. Oh no, the system that is used today around the world in commercial transactions between willing counterparties that have absolutely nothing to do with the Great British Empire.
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Post by lendinglawyer on Sept 20, 2018 11:05:51 GMT
Agree with elliotn . If you want bad legal systems, try every European/Civil system. In addition to the lawyers (most of whom are overly academic even in commercial transactions), you have the notaries and other such pointless people scamming off the top and slowing everything down. Somewhere like New Zealand/Canada has got it right with property though. Basically enforced e-conveyancing with none of the faff. The government has thought about selling the Land Registry a few times, and if they did I suspect a PE fund would come in, automate the hell out of it, make it work, and yet still get roundly criticised for "profiteering at the expense of the British public". Difference is the British public's representatives can't generate a profit, which does require automation, which is highly unpopular, and they also can't sell to it for exactly the same reason, so we are stuck with this system... It also does not help, at all, that Britain still has old properties like my gran's old house which was carved out of a family farm and it looks like a 12 year old drew the map on the deeds... Anyway, back on topic. Completion of this is taking an unreasonable amount of time. Chop chop MT. EDIT: my bad, I thought this was the second development thread. I'll take my chasers elsewhere...
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 25, 2018 17:06:01 GMT
Wandered past late morning and there were more vans parked outside than normal, but still no sense of urgency:
- Good news is that 2 of the vans belonged to western power, although the temporary generator is still up and running
- Bad news is that the annoying large excavation in the footpath at the northwest corner of the norther block is still there.
- Block paving at the front of the southern block is complete. Just a shame that the man who did the paving couldn't be bothered to tie the levels in to match the surrounding area (drunken students can fall over by themselves without added trip hazards).
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Oct 4, 2018 7:29:00 GMT
Without getting into the details of the Administrator's report, it looks like this is going to end up in another shortfall?
Appalling.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Oct 4, 2018 8:01:07 GMT
Without getting into the details of the Administrator's report, it looks like this is going to end up in another shortfall? Appalling. We already knew that.
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Oct 4, 2018 9:20:36 GMT
Without getting into the details of the Administrator's report, it looks like this is going to end up in another shortfall? Appalling. We already knew that. Yep
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keystone
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Post by keystone on Oct 4, 2018 9:51:31 GMT
I thought the initial report was for a +/-10% either way. This new report indicates a shortfall so maybe a 10-20% loss?.
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Post by mattygroves on Oct 4, 2018 11:02:50 GMT
Without getting into the details of the Administrator's report, it looks like this is going to end up in another shortfall? Appalling. As you would expect for a half completed development project and as has been said we already knew. 12% development loans are risky and there are bound to be extra costs if administrators and new contractors are needed part way through. I'll be happy with anything above 75% recovery on a 70% LTV defaulted development loan - and I think I'll get that with this one.
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