SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 19, 2016 11:16:36 GMT
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Nov 19, 2016 15:13:42 GMT
Indeed, its not the 'down the way' rates that are affecting Rebs. They now have direct competition for higher-risk loans. If you are an 'E rated' SME business and want a loan, far easier and quicker it will be to apply to FC. And no annoying questions to answer either! Although it would be better for us to see a greater spread of loan applications over the P2P platform market, especially with all the annoying things about FC, the fact is that they have cornered the market, leaving the rest to fight over the scraps. In the longer - or even shorter!- term, it is difficult to see the survival of other platforms that offer relatively unsecured SME loans. If Rebs, FK, and LC all amalgamated - or agreed to post each others loans (I think they should consider this but it is probably impossible)- even then it would still be a minor dent in FC's market. What can Rebs do now? Nothing probably, except carry on pretty much the same and hope that all will be well - just like the rest of us, really.
As for the recent 'B that was a C' loan, the bottom line is, it filled quickly and easily, so presumably all participating lenders are happy with it - and Rebs will be delighted!
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am
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Post by am on Nov 19, 2016 23:13:40 GMT
I was under the impression that ReBS addressed the riskier end of the SME spectrum. If this is the case the recent change to FC rates should help, not hinder, ReBS, as FC have increased the rates for what they classify as riskier loans, which would be where they are in competition with ReBS.
So I suspect coincidence.
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Post by jh on Nov 21, 2016 9:44:28 GMT
For various reasons I tend to not comment too much here, however thought I add my own thoughts to this thread. Moderators feel free to edit or redact if any of the content breaches any of your rules. My understanding is that FC review their rates on a monthly basis. I have only noticed a couple of changes this year, all positive. I suspect that they are moved in line with deals they strike with their institutional investors. Without wanting to disrespect Rebs (or anyone else for that fact), the FC change will have nothing to do with the changes at Rebs as they have a different focus and do not see them as competition. With regards to the reduced applications to our friends at Rebs, I suspect there are a number of reasons. My personal thoughts are as follows : - Time scales. 1-2 weeks for assessment then 7-28 days to fund
- Assumed lack of liquidity, due to the time it takes to fund it can be assumed there is a lack of motivation for investors to lend
- Fear of the Q&A - time and time again new introducers come on board, introduce a loan and are either not prepared for the extent of the Q&A or have not fully prepped their clients as to the demands. Often these loans fail, or ta,ke an eternity to fund and we then never see the introducers back.
The assessement process has improved massively in recent times, Rebs ask for double the information that FC request and the assessment prcoess has it's own q&a to begin with. I see these changes as positive and hope that the corner has finally been turned.
Hope this helps..
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Post by jh on Nov 22, 2016 11:29:10 GMT
With regards to the reduced applications to our friends at Rebs, I suspect there are a number of reasons. My personal thoughts are as follows : - Time scales. 1-2 weeks for assessment then 7-28 days to fund
- Assumed lack of liquidity, due to the time it takes to fund it can be assumed there is a lack of motivation for investors to lend
- Fear of the Q&A - time and time again new introducer's come on board, introduce a loan and are either not prepared for the extent of the Q&A or have not fully prepped their clients as to the demands. Often these loans fail, or take an eternity to fund and we then never see the introducer's back.
The assessement process has improved massively in recent times, Rebs ask for double the information that FC request and the assessment process has it's own q&a to begin with. I see these changes as positive and hope that the corner has finally been turned.
jh (John), thank you for your contributions which are most helpful to fostering a greater understanding, I have abridged these to enable me to focus in one particular observation statement that you've made as I personally view the difficulties of which you write as an educational issue and one that Rebuilding Society.com themselves could address prior to a loan being listed, if I may I'll direct the following question to rebsrep : Please could you explain how our visiting Brokers or stand alone applicants are being prepared for the rigours of auction Q&A's, are they being presented with a standard format written guide to assist them and their Clients for example? Please go into as much detail as you feel appropriate. Separately but remaining on the theme of communications,I am reassured to hear from John that you have been tightening up on your Office based due diligence, most regretfully though you've not been communicating this out to your lenders has not been evident, this would be viewed as a reassurance to your lenders given what you did to our T&C's back in April; please could I seek your comments? Best regards. Morning James, To be fair towards the platform, it should be down to the introducers themselves to research the platform in preperation to deal with the q&a. I for one suggest to my clients that they look at previous listings by way of the site map to get an idea of what is expected, siting good and bad examples. On a number of occasions the clients have chosen not to proceed, others have embraced it. Anyone with experience on other platforms would not expect extent of the Q's and often it is a baptism of fire for them. I recall reading a blog from Rebs to say they had increased and tightened up the assessment process.
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Post by wilko44 on Nov 24, 2016 20:46:40 GMT
Firstly, I would like to apologise for the lack of replies on this sub forum. This will no longer be the case and I can personally assure you that should a question be asked I will answer. Now for the questions that our friendly Scots man has asked above please see my responses below. First Question: Please could you explain how our visiting Brokers or stand alone applicants are being prepared for the rigours of auction Q&A's, are they being presented with a standard format written guide to assist them and their Clients for example? Please go into as much detail as you feel appropriate. When it come's to the Q&A involved in auctions, all borrowers and brokers are informed "of the need for them to participate fully" from the outset. "We use the same Q&A methods as you would use as part of our Office led underwriting process as we find this allows us to ask questions in the same way as you as you yourselves would this helps our visiting self introduced and broker led applicants to familiarise themselves with our way of doing things then finally just before their auction begins they are reminded again of just how important it is for them to engage with you as our Community." Second Question: I am reassured to hear from JH that you have been tightening up on your Office based due diligence, most regretfully though you've not been communicating this out to your lenders has not been evident, this would be viewed as a reassurance to your lenders given what you did to our T&C's back in April; please could I seek your comments? " jh " has helped us to refine our methods in "fore" warning brokers and clients about the "rigours" of our forum. "Jh" also sets a great example to any aspiring borrowers or brokers in terms of his approach "Jh's professionalism helps greatly and generally his loans tend to be the quickest funded and have the calmest of threads." This answer is still being completed.” Kyle
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Post by dodgeydave on Nov 25, 2016 9:37:54 GMT
@magenta14
The default rate should of gone up . As Pu**Y K*t is now or should be in default as it is 3 months behind.
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Post by danraj on Nov 25, 2016 12:39:44 GMT
Thanks for the well-intended questions, which I've attempted to answer below. Have Funding Circles rate changes impacted upon Rebuilding Society's ability to remain competitive/attract new Borrower prospects?I believe all platforms face increased competition. The core of this may be with the banks’ lending more, but it also has something to do with the shrinking of pool of healthy businesses. Institutions with access to government money and with the ability to lend ‘off balance sheet’ will always have an advantage because their cost of money supply is lower. Is it purely coincidental that Borrower applications to Rebuilding Society.com have witnessed a sharp decline since the introduction of revised Borrower rates by Funding Circle and is it coincidental that Rebuilding Society.com have introduced the incentive to attract new prospects?rebs operate different business strategy and model to most other platforms. Rebs has chosen to take an organic, profit-responsible approach to its growth. This year, although loan volumes have been lower than the previous year, Rebs have remained busy, strengthening its underwriting, enforcement, systems and focusing on achieving full FCA authorisation. The authorisation process has taken far longer to achieve than initially anticipated. Resulting in strain on all platforms. This strain has been felt in different ways and each platform has reacted differently. Rebs rerouted its usual marketing spend to other areas of the business. This was intentional and the expected result was a reduction in borrower applications. Nevertheless, average Net Returns have remained above the industry average. rebs seeks to broaden its appeal to creditworthy borrowers. The incentive, of encouraging borrowers to offer more security for a lower interest rate is the first of various tactics. However, this offer does not compete directly with FC or many other platforms that offer loans > £200k unsupported by any security. Rebs is a marketplace, and as such will be subject to market place conditions, resulting in changes in supply and demand. Could this have been the reason that a very recent and clearly warranted 'C' funding request went into a 'B' banding slot, could this have been intentional? I could ask this loans (P2P Indy Forum registered) introducing Broker to share their thoughts on this matter but I'd rather danraj provided comment for ReBS by himself..
The recently listed B rated loan was afforded a B rating not due to the incentive (if it had it would have been stated) but rather on the other merits of the business. As always, it is up to lenders to decide on their own risk appetite and assess the businesses for themselves. What other impact(s) could Funding Circles Competitive edge, financial 'strength' and a far broader loan base (class/sector) have upon Rebuilding Society.com?Ultimately, it will come down to the strength and performance of the loan book, not its size. How can Rebuilding Society.com address these additional Business challenges to regain it's competitive edge and attract new Borrower business?
We’re smaller, we try harder to grow… Please be patient with us, we will engage in more active borrower marketing upon receiving full authorisation from the FCA. Regarding your further comments on the default rate reduction, there are various factors that contribute to this: - There was a recent recovery, whereby the proportion of default was overstated until recently corrected
- Loan completions
(there was a completion last week) - Elapsed time (each moth without a default reduces the rate)
- Capital repayments from borrowers in default
I hope this helps to answer your questions.
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Post by oppsididitagain on Nov 26, 2016 10:49:15 GMT
"jh (John)" has helped us to refine our methods in "fore" warning brokers and clients about the "rigours" of our forum. "John" also sets a great example to any aspiring borrowers or brokers in terms of his approach "John's professionalism helps greatly and generally his loans tend to be the quickest funded and have the calmest of threads." This answer is still being completed.”
John H*** brought these loans to the platform. Which is the reason I unfortunately have no faith in ReBS anymore.
J** - Default after just 1 payment. We later find out this company was in trouble before they approached ReBS for more funding.
L** J*** Default after 1 payment - This company has PGI which hasn't paid out to the lenders.
D**** M***** - Defaulted after 10 payments. This company paid out £50k in Dividends in the 3 previous years of trading but now can't pay its monthly repayment
Just 3 reasons why I have decided to not invest anymore.
MOD: BB: removed borrower names
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Post by jh on Nov 26, 2016 19:38:06 GMT
"jh (John)" has helped us to refine our methods in "fore" warning brokers and clients about the "rigours" of our forum. "John" also sets a great example to any aspiring borrowers or brokers in terms of his approach "John's professionalism helps greatly and generally his loans tend to be the quickest funded and have the calmest of threads." This answer is still being completed.” John H*** brought these loans to the platform. Which is the reason I unfortunately have no faith in ReBS anymore. J** - Default after just 1 payment. We later find out this company was in trouble before they approached ReBS for more funding. Les **** 1 payment - This company has PGI which hasn't paid out to the lenders. Di*** M**** - Defaulted after 10 payments. This company paid out £50k in Dividends in the 3 previous years of trading but now can't pay its monthly repayment Just 3 reasons why I have decided to not invest anymore. Good Evening. Firstly, please revisit your post as I believe the open naming of borrowers is prohibited by the rules of the forum. Perhaps you don't understand the role of a Commercial Finance Broker. Brokers do not underwrite, nor approve cases for listing. We take instruction from clients and match borrowers with lenders/platforms according to their needs and criteria. I agree there have been some cases that have gone sour, however on each and every occasion that a payment is missed I will always attempt to make contact with the borrower to try and resolve the issues (unless I am instructed by the Platform not to). Sadly, often the borrowers become embarrassed by the situation and refuse to engage with me, or simply choose to buried their head in the sand. On at least three occasions I have withdrawn live listings where I have found out negative information about a company or director. In the case of the 3rd loan on your list, this is a secured loan which looks to be in a good position for recovery of funds. On a more positive note, there have been a number of improvements in the assessment process which should improve the quality of cases listed.
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Post by jh on Nov 26, 2016 19:46:11 GMT
Copied & Pasted from Rebuilding Society.com, Quick Stats: *Link: www.rebuildingsociety.com/about-us/*Please listen to danraj 's reference to eBay and what this means for Rebuilding Society.com's ambitions. I'd be interested in relating the 'Applications this week' figure to the 'Live Loan Auctions' figure as the former will have direct bearing on the latter. Dan Rajkumar MD of Rebuilding Society.com has indicated that for every 100 prospective Borrower approaches that only 20 or so of these will be assessed strong enough to go forwards to a loan auction so using this as a guide then for every 10 vetted applications we could realistically hope to witness 2 new requests move to auction... 20/11/1016, Sunday (Baseline): Applications this week: 1 Live loan auctions: 3 Default rate: 11.0% 21/11/2016, Monday: Applications this week: 0 Live loan auctions: 2 (Drop from yesterday attributable to successful loan fill £40K). Default rate: 11.0% 22/11/2016, Tuesday: Applications this week: 0 Live loan auctions: 1 (+ 1 closed @ circa 16% of funding requirement of 200K).Default rate: 11.0% 23/11/2016, Wednesday: Applications this week: 0 Live loan auctions: 2 (+ 1 closed as for 22/11/2016). Default rate: 11.0% 24/11/2016, Thursday: Applications this week: 1 Live loan auctions: 2 (+ 1 closed as for 22/11/2016). Default rate: 11.0% 25/11/2016 Applications this week: 1 Live loan auctions: 2 (+ 1 closed as for 22/11/2016). Default rate: 10.9% (Drop in publicly stated default rate danraj has provided an explanation see below). How can Rebuilding Society.com address these additional Business challenges to regain it's competitive edge and attract new Borrower business? Quotes Dan Rajkumar 25/11/2016 (unabridged):"We’re smaller, we try harder to grow…" (Me: Growth is being anchored by lender confidence issues linked to Portal defaults and resultant lack of liquidity 2016. Currently Rebuilding Society.com have 6687 Registered users, how many of these are actively lending into new funding requests?"Please be patient with us, we will engage in more active borrower marketing upon receiving full authorisation from the FCA." (Me: Borrower introductions were running at a high level without full FCA authorisation until Portal defaults lead to lender confidence issues and a consequential drop in liquidity as lender funds exited ReBS during 2016. Getting back to the theme of this thread could you provide any other explanations as to why ReBS is experiencing such a dearth of Borrower applications now, would you like to counter what I've written? "Regarding your further comments on the default rate reduction, there are various factors that contribute to this:There was a recent recovery, whereby the proportion of default was overstated until recently corrected .Loan completions (there was a completion last week).Elapsed time (each month without a default reduces the rate); (me: Mathematically adjusted?), (Quote MONEY 26/11/2016: "Whatever the motive, one way or another, moving from a lifetime total to an annual report of default statistics only serves as a tool to deviate from the past." Link to Dan's post so we can read about the issue in context: p2pindependentforum.com/post/148810 Capital repayments from borrowers in default."
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26/11/2016 Saturday: Applications this week: 1 Live loan auctions: 2 Default rate: 10.9% Good Evening James, just a quick note, not wishing to 'upset your figures' the platform will not include those enquiries that us introducers make direct for an 'opinion' prior to making a formal application which would then go on the platform stats. The time it takes to put together a presentation and application, we tend to find it easy to run the case by the guys first (also avoids duplicates where they have seen it and declined before)
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 26, 2016 20:30:20 GMT
DO NOT NAME BORROWERS. And when you have identified that someone has breached that rule, please don't quote the errant post thereby doubling the edits required.
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Post by jh on Nov 27, 2016 13:04:56 GMT
jh , you yourself have mentioned that you have been working with our Office team to refine the processes by which presumably Borrower applications are either rejected or accepted yet a tightening of the criteria by which you and fellow Brokers can successfully introduce applications to our auctions process runs contrary to your own priority as a Broker to and I'll quote you: "...however you forget the role of a broker/introducer. The job is to find a home for a loan. It is the lender/platform's job to underwrite the loan enquiry." (02/02/2016 @ 15:40 hrs). a) Surely there's a conflict of interest, why would you wish to assist ReBS in modifying their selection processes, please explain? as below, I have not done this, I have, however, answered questions as to what other platforms do. b) Why would ReBS seek or be offered your assistance, (seek or offer, which), please explain? Rebs, and other platforms, will often seek information from brokers, whether this be a "what to 'xxx' do, or ' what would you like to see changed' It is more fact finding than asking for opinions.c) When did your involvement in creating these procedural refinements commence? Why that date in particular? What's the significance? As above I have not had influence over changesd) Is your involvement in creating these procedural refinements purely altruistic, please explain? i have no involvement in setting underwriting or assessment procedurese) How extensive has your involvement with ReBS been with respect to these procedural refinements? Nonef) What's the advantage to you as a Broker of ReBS procedures becoming (fully) fit for purpose? Not sure of what you mean 'fit for purpose'. The advantage for a broker of a fully operating and liquid platform is that it keeps open a platform to bring clients to.g) What are your priorities as an Introducing Broker, where do your core loyalties rest? Please explain. - Probably an obvious answer - My priorities have to be that of achieving success for my client. Within this is also to ensure that I maintain positive relationships with the lenders/platforms in order that I can continue to do this.
But back to the matter of the sizable decline in Publicly/statistically declared applications to the ReBS particularly since FC's introduced it's own rate changes (end of week 1 November 2016), neither you nor danraj have IMO presented sufficient explanations. ReBS's own Public application Stats are showing zero or very near zero activity (aka flat-lining) and ReBS has now begun offering a very tasty but risky Introduction Bonus to lenders et al who are prepared to successfully introduce potential Borrowers to the ReBS Platform; no one has provided a reason for this, why this has suddenly become necessary or why it's introduction has followed hard on the heels of FC's rate changes and a marked decline in stated applications? John the Borrower requests are out there But where are they going and why are they not coming to ReBS? Please recap on your own thoughts on this for me and provide greater detail. Best regards. In answer to this, I would keep it simple and speak from personal opinion:
- Perceived lack of liquidity on the platform
- Initial Higher rates and fees are off putting to borrowers
- "public" listing - Some borrowers do not want the information requested, and a borrowing request out there and available on a google search.
- The Q&A is off putting to some borrowers - I will always discuss this element prior to listing and if a borrower says they are not happy with this then it will not be followed through
- Some brokers are not happy with the intense nature and allocation of time that needs to be allocated to the Q&A
- Time taken from application to completion, typically borrowers are looking for unsecured lending to be done and dusted inside of 10-14 days which is entirely achievable elsewhere
In reality, the q&a should not really put people off as it allows transparency. There have been many a time where previously unseen negatives ad positives have been highlighted on the forum. In addition, the reality is that the Q&A is only used by a very low percentage of the total number of lenders. I would estimated that only 10-12 of the community are regular participants of the Q&A. Same probably applies to this forum. Firstly I have had no influence in setting any underwriting/assessment criteria, if this has been inferred then I can only apologise that it has been perceived that way. On occasion I may have (along side other brokers) answered questions as to how others assess cases and made suggestions as I have openly on this forum. Many lenders send us regular questionnaires asking 'how can we do better' ad 'what would you like changed' .I have, however, never been part of the decision making process. See above my responses. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Nov 27, 2016 17:15:38 GMT
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Post by rebsrep on Nov 28, 2016 9:51:54 GMT
Hi ablender, I see that rebsrep (Kylie?) has now provided you with an answer to your long outstanding *question under the S*** E (Ltd) thread and this was posted yesterday evening. *Subject: What causes delays in lenders receiving updates for late repayments and for defaulted loan 'recoveries'Answer here:p2pindependentforum.com/post/154734Best regards. @magenta14 wilko44 is Kyle rebsrep is the same rebsrep it has always been. Kylie is kylierebsoc but she rarely posts on here (last login was May this year and last post was in 2014)
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