mnm
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Post by mnm on Oct 21, 2016 8:49:26 GMT
This need £200k. Will it fill.
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Post by es2013david on Oct 21, 2016 12:06:59 GMT
@magenta14
I don't know what proportion of the 150 or so "new members" (that have registered during the last 2-months) are potential lenders, but with around 200 - 300 lenders currently needed to complete recent cases, and a distinct coyness on the part of the applicants to provide legitimate information - even to one of our heavyweights - I just don't see this one filling.
In general I think that ReBS should provide the trading address of the business and the address of ALL property offered as security. We must have lenders throughout the country, potentially able to highlight firms with a poor local reputation. Too much time is taken seeking out stuff that should be offered up front - secretive applicants only create suspicion.
Confirming an estimated value AFTER completion is of no use to anyone - what happens if the eventual "professional valuation" is LESS than the amount estimated under "why consider investing/security"?
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Oct 21, 2016 12:51:13 GMT
I think ReBs need to start auctions at 25% or 30%. I suggested this a few months back but nothing came of it. There are currently several loan parts available on the FS SM offering higher effective buyer rates than are even possible on ReBs. I know there is an additional tax burden on the FS SM but for 20% tax payers it's still better than ReBs rates, and they are asset secured whereas ReBs offer a worthless PG on most loans.
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 21, 2016 20:48:05 GMT
I'm not on ReBS but the thread title caught my eye, along with the phrase "gas station" in one of the earlier posts
There is a FK loan to a business "K*r*n R*t**l Ltd", its for £200k, 12 month interest only maturing 16th December 2016. The FK loan listing has full details including the address of the service station security, and its Dec 2015 valuation of £300k plus the certificate of title are attached. The most recent update on the loan was on 20th September: "With 3 months until the loan is due for repayment in full we have been in contact with the borrower. They advise us that they are proposing to refinance with a bank and have agreed terms subject to valuation."
The ten monthly interest payments have always been made on time (but frequently posted late to lenders due to bugs in FK's IO part of the software). An average lender rate of 9.37% was achieved.
It is reasonable to suppose that renewal on FK is not an option as GLI Finance will presumably want to extract their portion of the loan.
EDIT: The cynics (realists ?) amongst you can have lots of fun speculating why ReBS is allegedly keeping the details on this one secret, when the borrower is fully conversant with p2p, and their introducer provided open and frank commentary on the FK Q&A page. If the security is the same as the FK loan, I can see no justification in a lender rate in excess of 10%, and would likely be 8% on AC.
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Oct 21, 2016 21:38:00 GMT
I'm not on ReBS but the thread title caught my eye, along with the phrase "gas station" in one of the earlier posts There is a FK loan to a business "K*r*n R*t**l Ltd", its for £200k, 12 month interest only maturing 16th December 2016. The FK loan listing has full details including the address of the service station security, and its Dec 2015 valuation of £300k plus the certificate of title are attached. The most recent update on the loan was on 20th September: "With 3 months until the loan is due for repayment in full we have been in contact with the borrower. They advise us that they are proposing to refinance with a bank and have agreed terms subject to valuation." The ten monthly interest payments have always been made on time (but frequently posted late to lenders due to bugs in FK's IO part of the software). An average lender rate of 9.37% was achieved. It is reasonable to suppose that renewal on FK is not an option as GLI Finance will presumably want to extract their portion of the loan. EDIT: The cynics (realists ?) amongst you can have lots of fun speculating why ReBS is allegedly keeping the details on this one secret, when the borrower is fully conversant with p2p, and their introducer provided open and frank commentary on the FK Q&A page. If the security is the same as the FK loan, I can see no justification in a lender rate in excess of 10%, and would likely be 8% on AC. You don't need to be a ReBs investor to watch it fill. Just scroll to the bottom of the home page at www.rebuildingsociety.com/
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Post by mrclondon on Oct 21, 2016 21:47:15 GMT
Thanks sqh . Well the security is not the same ... the FK loan security is "Petrol filling service station with flat above shop" not the mixed bag of bits on offer at ReBS, so I've scrubbed the final sentence on my previous post. Which makes the timing very mysterious ... taking on more debt could jepordise the refinance of the FK loan to a third party .... unless of course this ReBS loan is an unofficial means of redeeming the FK loan ... the £200k amount is quite a co-incidence.
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Post by es2013david on Oct 21, 2016 22:56:18 GMT
mrclondonThank you for the information - you are spot on - there is a disclosed loan (interest only mortgage) from FK, but it is NOT shown as due for redemption, although some £70k is shown as due to be repaid with the ReBS loan. Interesting that the applicant called all the loans "unsecured loans" when asked for details (really? unbelievable!), and stated no future borrowings under consideration. Again, this smacks of lack of disclosure - certainly not palms uppermost - and £200k wouldn't redeem all four loans, anyway. I see from a default case (P****** T*******) that ReBS didn't actually require the lawyers to redeem the old loans out of the new loan (even though this was the express purpose of most of the new loan), but trusted the borrower to do this, and then produce evidence afterwards. If this is still the process I see it as a great temptation for a horse & stable door situation, and an unnecessary risk! I hope the process has changed.
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oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
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Post by oldgrumpy on Oct 22, 2016 10:22:22 GMT
I notice that I am not allowed to sell my £100 on FK - don't know why.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Oct 22, 2016 12:44:36 GMT
I notice that I am not allowed to sell my £100 on FK - don't know why. ooh yes. Still on FK we have a first charge with fairly recent valuation of 250K~370K with a 200K loan.
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Post by rebsrep on Oct 24, 2016 16:40:53 GMT
Where a property is used as security we apply the following principles:
• 1st charge: We obtain a full professional valuation after the loan has fully filled but before the loan is drawn down. If the professional valuation is significantly under the valuation stated in the borrowers application, or causes the application to fall below our security standards we would revert to lenders before releasing any funds.
• 2nd charge: We rely on professional valuations obtained by the 1st charge holder. If the professional valuation or the equity position is significantly under the valuation stated in the borrowers application or causes the application to fall below our security standards we would revert to lenders before releasing any funds.
• Property stated to back a PG: We will make all reasonable efforts to use market data to verify the approximate valuation stated by a Director is correct. This is usually done before a loan is listed on the platform for lenders consideration.
Regarding the FK loan, this was listed by the director when he initially made the application and has been listed on the application financials tab. The applicant has not indicated that it is his intention to redeem the FK loan from funds raised on our platform. As a general note, if any loan listed in the financials tab of the listing is to be redeemed this will be made clear to lenders on the application. It will be appropriately indicated on the entry and in the listing blurb. Barring exceptional circumstances, when the purpose of an application is the refinancing of current debt, the redemption of the loans to be redeemed is handled by us after the auction from the funds raised as a condition prior to drawdown and before the release of funds to the borrower.
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Post by es2013david on Oct 24, 2016 17:20:34 GMT
rebsrep Unless I've misread ReBSs actions during one current default case, (P****** T*******), ReBS didn't redeem the old loans out of the new loan (even though this was the express purpose of most of the new loan), but trusted the borrower to do this, and then produce evidence afterwards (which was duly done, luckily). From what you say, things have now changed. If we learn correctly that there is a £200k FK loan to K**** R***** Ltd that expires at the end of the year and NO NEW BORROWING is proposed, it seems only sensible that we seek clarity concerning how it might be redeemed. Thanks for the background concerning estimates of property values. Whilst first and second charges against freehold property with accurate valuations remain one of the best elements of lender security, vague unsubstantiated claims of value and equity should always be treated with caution. I enjoyed over 40 years combatting exaggerated value claims by existing and proposed borrowers trying to achieve the necessary LTV when applying to remortgage - their house is always bigger, better, has superior fittings/windows/heating system/conservatory than the house around the corner that they absolutely know sold for much more that the bank/building society valuation of their own property. Why would applicants to ReBS be any different? Keep up the good work!
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binkle
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Post by binkle on Oct 26, 2016 6:45:37 GMT
Thank you all participant in this thread. This is the sort of dialogue including Rebs, hawks and uber - hawks that gives me confidence to make decisions.
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mnm
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Post by mnm on Oct 26, 2016 20:48:19 GMT
K*r*n R*t**l Ltd is slow to answer. Is this normal?
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Post by es2013david on Oct 27, 2016 7:45:23 GMT
K*r*n R*t**l Ltd is slow to answer. Is this normal? Can it be that even Route 101 appeared unimpressed with the answers afforded him, unless HNW $ & £ wish to refuel this Gas station together then perhaps rebsrep could stump up the cash for a Paupers burial embalmed by a chirpy looking Undertakers one block up, what are your thoughts mnm ? How would you define "Normal"? Best regards. mnmJust because a company is "big" and/or "expanding" doesn't mean it is successful, it may be drowning in debt. Some applicants react as if irritated by the questions, some feel the questions are intrusive, some want their business affairs kept secret, some are downright evasive, whilst others give the answers they think you want to read so they embroider the truth and are therefore dishonest. You takes your pick then trace whatever you can on google and follow up any tit-bit of information on "credit" and other free information sites. If you find things that you don't like either spend money on accurate current data searches or walk away! It's your call.
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mnm
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Post by mnm on Oct 28, 2016 11:36:13 GMT
This company is answering more. Does the answers make sense.
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