k6
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Post by k6 on Oct 5, 2024 14:24:56 GMT
So you think it perfectly acceptable for Russia to just walk into the neighbours house and knock a couple of their rooms through into theirs, and demand you control who the neighbours socialise and work with. You don't think there should be any attempt to stop them getting away with that kind of thing? Might is right, and sod anybody who gets in the way. I am not repeating myself again. For the final time I believe this conflict could have been avoided in the first place and Ukraine has been used to fight a proxy war against Russia against its own interests. There are a number of things I do not agree with in this conflict, and the number one of these is the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who have been killed for nothing. I will agree with you on one think here, the "the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who have been killed for nothing". And this is the main regret I have and see happening during during this conflict. I am not sorry for the other side. This conflict would be avoided if not the delusional Putler. It never crossed his sick mind this will turned the way it did. He put him self in a situation where he has no other choice only keep carry on this war till . . . he can't carry on this war any longer. Ukraine has a plan but it needs some help. russia is weak but it will play the game it isn't
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 5, 2024 16:25:20 GMT
So you think it perfectly acceptable for Russia to just walk into the neighbours house and knock a couple of their rooms through into theirs, and demand you control who the neighbours socialise and work with. You don't think there should be any attempt to stop them getting away with that kind of thing? Might is right, and sod anybody who gets in the way. I am not repeating myself again. For the final time I believe this conflict could have been avoided in the first place By Ukraine doing exactly what the bully next door told them to?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Oct 5, 2024 16:53:34 GMT
I am not repeating myself again. For the final time I believe this conflict could have been avoided in the first place By Ukraine doing exactly what the bully next door told them to? The world is not made of candy floss and is certainly not fair - never has been and never will be.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 5, 2024 16:58:52 GMT
By Ukraine doing exactly what the bully next door told them to? The world is not made of candy floss and is certainly not fair - never has been and never will be. So there y'go. You approve of bully states doing exactly what they want to the neighbours with no comeback from the international community. Or is it just Russia? How about China? Do they have a free pass to invade Taiwan? What about if the UK decided to re-annex Ireland? Or if the EU had decided that the UK couldn't Brexit, and had decided to depose the Tories militarily? Perhaps BJ Piffle should have just invaded NL to nick those vaccs from a warehouse.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Oct 5, 2024 19:05:03 GMT
The world is not made of candy floss and is certainly not fair - never has been and never will be. So there y'go. You approve of bully states doing exactly what they want to the neighbours with no comeback from the international community. Or is it just Russia? How about China? Do they have a free pass to invade Taiwan? What about if the UK decided to re-annex Ireland? Or if the EU had decided that the UK couldn't Brexit, and had decided to depose the Tories militarily? Perhaps BJ Piffle should have just invaded NL to nick those vaccs from a warehouse. You dont need hypothetical examples. How about the US killing countless numbers of people in the middle east and destroying Iraq and Libya. Or invading Afghanistan because some guy who used to be on their payroll went a bit out of control and then suddenly deciding they are going to withdraw their troops and leave the people who they had paid to side with them to the Taliban. Oh wait they are the good guys who are trying to preserve freedom and democracy in Ukraine, how can this be possible.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 5, 2024 19:15:59 GMT
So there y'go. You approve of bully states doing exactly what they want to the neighbours with no comeback from the international community. Or is it just Russia? How about China? Do they have a free pass to invade Taiwan? What about if the UK decided to re-annex Ireland? Or if the EU had decided that the UK couldn't Brexit, and had decided to depose the Tories militarily? Perhaps BJ Piffle should have just invaded NL to nick those vaccs from a warehouse. You dont need hypothetical examples. True. China and Taiwan are far from hypothetical. Nor, if we believe* BJ Piffle could the NL invasion have been. * - yeh, I know.I don't think they've turned up and said "Mine now", have they? But maybe Israel...?  ...in the lawless chaos following Russia's abortive invasion.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 5, 2024 19:20:16 GMT
You dont need hypothetical examples. True. China and Taiwan are far from hypothetical. Nor, if we believe* BJ Piffle could the NL invasion have been. * - yeh, I know.I don't think they've turned up and said "Mine now", have they? But maybe Israel...? ...in the lawless chaos following Russia's abortive invasion. So they smash up a country and that's ok because they weren't seeking land? You're right about Israel though. Without the US, the country probably wouldn't exist (for the avoidance of doubt in the crazy world we live where keyboard warriors like us can go to prison for years for not doing much, I am not advocating that). The US, it seems to me, will support Israel no matter what it does as if Israel is a part of its territory.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 5, 2024 19:22:40 GMT
You're right about Israel though. Without the US, the country probably wouldn't exist I think the Balfour Declaration was a little closer to home than that. And, no, I'm not the one advocating militaristic adventuring. Quite the opposite. I'm suggesting that Russia should have their wrists very firmly slapped, not be rewarded with exactly what they want.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Oct 5, 2024 19:46:56 GMT
You dont need hypothetical examples. True. China and Taiwan are far from hypothetical. Nor, if we believe* BJ Piffle could the NL invasion have been. * - yeh, I know.I don't think they've turned up and said "Mine now", have they?
You are missing the point that the US has an Empire made up of Vassal states. It is different from the Empire of say the Romans and British who directly governed the principalities in their empire and has more in common Ottoman Empire which also had a Vasal State structure.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 5, 2024 19:50:40 GMT
You're right about Israel though. Without the US, the country probably wouldn't exist I think the Balfour Declaration was a little closer to home than that. And, no, I'm not the one advocating militaristic adventuring. Quite the opposite. I'm suggesting that Russia should have their wrists very firmly slapped, not be rewarded with exactly what they want. HA - All your posts seem to indicate you are quite comfortable with US intervention in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Russia and China are the evil ones in your eye - just look at Taiwan!!! (nothing doing). Indeed just today/yesterday you posted that the US should continue its global [destructive] role. US isolationism would be a bad thing you implied. Yes of course Russia should get its metaphorical bottom smacked. Ain't gonna happen though over and above what has already happened and is happening.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 5, 2024 19:50:58 GMT
True. China and Taiwan are far from hypothetical. Nor, if we believe* BJ Piffle could the NL invasion have been. * - yeh, I know.I don't think they've turned up and said "Mine now", have they? But maybe Israel...? ...in the lawless chaos following Russia's abortive invasion. So they smash up a country and that's ok because they weren't seeking land? You're right about Israel though. Without the US, the country probably wouldn't exist (for the avoidance of doubt in the crazy world we live where keyboard warriors like us can go to prison for years for not doing much, I am not advocating that). The US, it seems to me, will support Israel no matter what it does as if Israel is a part of its territory. It would because it had a UN mandate ... it would have been smaller if the Arabs hadn't invaded ... yes, the Arabs (not the Palestinians who got kicked by everyone) started it. Israel is the poster boy of the law of unintended consequences ... every time the Arabs tried to wipe it out, it got bigger.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 5, 2024 20:04:22 GMT
True. China and Taiwan are far from hypothetical. Nor, if we believe* BJ Piffle could the NL invasion have been. * - yeh, I know.I don't think they've turned up and said "Mine now", have they? You are missing the point that the US has an Empire made up of Vassal states.
One of us is missing the point. I don't think it's me. Russia had an empire of vassal states. Those decided they didn't want to be vassals any more, c. 1991. A certain Russian dictator despot leader doesn't like that, and has spent the last two and a half years trying to take one of them back by force. It just happens to be the one that has good blue-water port access, what a surprise. You seem to think the rest of the world should just let him. I'm asking you if it's just Russia that you think should have that right. You are not answering my question.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 5, 2024 20:06:13 GMT
All your posts seem to indicate you are quite comfortable with US intervention in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to give examples of that? Did I? No, I asked you if only the US should be isolationist, or - since you believed it a good thing - if other countries should also be isolationist, specifically the UK. I don't recall you answering that. FWIW, you're right, I think ANY country being isolationist is a very bad thing for that country. We only really have one example to go by currently - and that example illustrates my point beautifully, I think.
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k6
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Post by k6 on Oct 5, 2024 21:15:55 GMT
...and if Ukraine don't think that having to hand over invaded territory, and be dictated to by a bully, is acceptable? Then Russia will continue until Ukraine's military collapses, Ukraine falls into anarchy and Zelensky flees the country. At this point someone who is not totally anti-russia (like Tymoshenko) will come to power and agree to Russia's terms whatever they are - basically unconditional surrender The only thing that collapses is your sense of reality follow by your payroll. Wicker putler and his slaves russians are more aggressive your post seams to be, which tells Ukraine does the right thing  Do not worry about your bag of gold, soon it will be cheaper due to russia knelling, you gonna have a chance to buy more although the Rubles might be worth not much by then
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k6
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Post by k6 on Oct 5, 2024 21:27:52 GMT
No mention of the key factor - manpower. Ukraine's lack of it. Russians are manoeuvring through the lines at will, isolating Ukr forces, creating salients and forcing withdrawal (shut 4 in the last two days). Ukraine cant cope with the wack a mole tactics ... Russians are just activating new sectors, then letting others go dormant ... they have total initiative at the moment. Vuledhar is old news, they are well beyond it now, no mention of the advances in the north to the Oksil river ... Zelensky needs to talk to someone like Orban and try to open a channel with Russia to begin negotiations for Russias terms for ending the conflict. The reality is Russia has won this conflict and will dictate terms, but I suspect these terms will be better for the Ukrainian people than having their country destroyed. These terms will probably involve the handing over of parts of Eastern Ukraine to the Russian Federation and Ukraine agreeing not to be used by the US to threaten Russia. You are a pure putles *****. You noticed no one is taking your scaremongering seriously so you going full on with whatever come to your delusional mind. And you don't care how this is perceived cos . . . the job needs to be done Leave Ukraine to do their thing. Do not pretend you so worry about their outcome. You have mentioned now Orban, a russian trojan horse in UE that should be kick out long time ago. He sold his country to putler, hopefully not the ppl soul.
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