star dust
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,998
Likes: 3,531
|
Post by star dust on Nov 21, 2020 15:27:13 GMT
Hi The amount showing in the release request was my capital less the release amount so it was definitely taken up front. I did raise this with them in May when I requested the release. In my complaint to them I stated >On another note, the release fees should be taken when the cash is actually released, not upfront. From various forums etc online there are people complaining that they are waiting months for release and in the meantime they are losing any >interest on the fee amount. With larger amounts and months long waiting times this loss could be substantial. They replied back with >In relation to funds being released in the Max product, the release fee is 90 days worth of interest. I can see you have requested a withdrawal on 4th May 2020 and the release fee was £x. I replied back a few times complaining about it being taken up front but they did not bother to respond to any of my further emails. Part of what I was unhappy with was that just before they changed the rates I had upped my investment. Within a week or two this happened and then when I requested a release I was charged the fee on the full amount even though I had just put the money in. I was charged the 3 months interest release fee on the full amount even though the majority of it had just been deposited and hadnt even earned any interest at that stage. I read the other thread but still am confused about the reinvestments at 4% and not at the 9% that I have set. I can see in my transaction list a capital repayment appear then go out again on the same date as a lend order. checking the loans I can see that amount is at the 4%. I am guessing that the "reinvestment" is me actually buying a loan from somebody higher up the queue than me. Thanks Richard You say the "release request" - so yes, when you make an RYI request you are shown a screen telling you how much capital you have to RYI, and how much the fees will be if it's in a product that attracts RYI fees. Then it shows you the difference between the two as what you will actually receive when the request is fulfilled. You have to agree to this to continue. This is a quote it is not an actual payment. Actual payments turn up in your Transaction History, with fees against an entry "LenderExitMarketExitFee". As you state you made your RYI request in May I suspect you have neither received your capital back yet nor been actually charged an exit fee. The actual fee when your money is released will be based on the amount of capital released, this is highly likely to be less than you initially requested due to the lengthy delay in your RYI request being completed/fulfilled.
You also say "checking the loans I can see that amount is at the 4%" if you know where to check the loans, you will also see that each loan has a number in the "Months Remaining" column this is the underlying loan term, and the (amortised) capital of your loan will continue to be matched at the loan rate of 4% for each of the months remaining. Your capital is just continuing to service an existing borrower's loan it is not paying for other peoples RYI's. This is simply how the product works.
From what you are saying I don't think there is anything unusual in the way your account is operating and you have done everything possible until your RYI release reaches the top of the queue, which if you made it in May is likely to be a few months more yet.
|
|
|
Post by rpearson on Nov 21, 2020 15:52:53 GMT
Sorry, I am battling to get my mind round this. Please excuse me if I seem dense If I check my transaction history I see an incoming transaction titled capital repayment. Then after that I see another transaction with a lend order going out. Surely this lend order is a new loan as I have received capital back from a previous loan? I f I check the money on loan page I can see that same amount showing contract date as the same date as the lend order. If I click into this loan I see initial loan amount and he outstanding balance both are the same as the lend order amount as above. There is an original contract formation date of April this year so yes its not a new loan to RS but I am confused about why I am being matched to this loan when the rate of the loan is lower than the rate I have set as what I am prepared to lend at. It really does just appear to me that this loans original lenders have requested a release and thus the loan needs taking over. So they are using my money to take over this loan so the person higher up can get a cash out. I understand that any current loan I am involved in would stay at the same rate until its paid up, but if I get a capital payment back then lent out again surely that should be lent at the rate I have set? I am confused about how anybody is managing to get capital out by setting the rate up to the max as in my case this money just gets lent out immediately again before I can request a withdrawal. Lent out at a much lower rate than what I have set. As I said, if I am misunderstanding I am sorry to waste your time but I just cannot get my mind around how this is working. It just is not making sense at all.
|
|
|
Post by rpearson on Nov 21, 2020 16:00:35 GMT
As i was in 1 & 5 year and a small test in access i may not be the person to help but with regards your reinvestment at 4% in Max But on the day it happens are you getting in effect 2 payments?One of interest and of capital (probably the pennies you mention) plus a larger sum of capital rolled over at 4% which has not actually been paid out to you but is still a payment By setting your rate to 9% you should stop the interest and repayments paid to you (early repayments) from being lent but the rolled over capital continues at the rate you first invested Yes thats what I would expect. But the interest and capital are being lent out again but at the 4% not the 9% I have set.
|
|
aju
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 923
|
Post by aju on Nov 21, 2020 16:19:43 GMT
Sorry, I am battling to get my mind round this. Please excuse me if I seem dense If I check my transaction history I see an incoming transaction titled capital repayment. Then after that I see another transaction with a lend order going out. Surely this lend order is a new loan as I have received capital back from a previous loan? I f I check the money on loan page I can see that same amount showing contract date as the same date as the lend order. If I click into this loan I see initial loan amount and he outstanding balance both are the same as the lend order amount as above. There is an original contract formation date of April this year so yes its not a new loan to RS but I am confused about why I am being matched to this loan when the rate of the loan is lower than the rate I have set as what I am prepared to lend at. It really does just appear to me that this loans original lenders have requested a release and thus the loan needs taking over. So they are using my money to take over this loan so the person higher up can get a cash out. I understand that any current loan I am involved in would stay at the same rate until its paid up, but if I get a capital payment back then lent out again surely that should be lent at the rate I have set? I am confused about how anybody is managing to get capital out by setting the rate up to the max as in my case this money just gets lent out immediately again before I can request a withdrawal. Lent out at a much lower rate than what I have set. As I said, if I am misunderstanding I am sorry to waste your time but I just cannot get my mind around how this is working. It just is not making sense at all. Hi rpearson , welcome to the forums Sadly you are not alone in your confusion, RS does not make it as transparent as it could be, many of us on here have been in the same position (some would say we are still confused but that's the nature of the RS beast). What the others have described to you is exactly correct (caveat is that you are right and RS is making an error but I doubt it) When you look at the details you should not be paying too much attention to what the borrowers rates are as they are covering a multitude of items to get the loan in the first place. It's the lenders section that will tell you loanrate you are getting for your part of the loan. I can't remember if it says the rate you get and omits the 50% part that currently goes to the Protection Fund(PF). So there are three actual scenarios that could be happening when funds come into your account (ignoring 5 year and 1Y just sticking to the new products A/P/M loans) 1. The loan is paying capital and interest monthly and you receive parts of the capital payments and some interest 2. The loan is making its final payment including capital and interest. 3. The borrower has paid off all loan parts completely. In scenario 1 whilst you may see the returns in your holding for a brief period only the payments will be available the loan itself is not finished and as result RS puts a lock on it and you cannot remove it. RS then applies the loan under the existing loan_ID but creates a new contract and lends at the rate it was set at the start (In your loans case 4%). Only scenario's 2 & 3 will result in money becoming free to be placed onto the queue and offered for new loan. it is that money that you can see on offer if its £10 or more. There are a few other things as well but scenario 1 is the one that I think you are falling foul of. It might be wise to note that in the past RS used to detail loans with the both the Loan ID and the contract ID but now has moved the loan ID into another screen. There are a few other scenarios but those above are the main ones that confuse people. Hope this additional Note helps. PS: I'm not sure as I caught a loan yesterday that had completed but when I went to cancel it it would seem a bit odd that the On offer money did not state what rate I was offering at. I did not investigate too much as I just wanted the money back. My rate was 8% as it was an access loan that had completed. The cycnic in me would say that someone has recently introduced a bug into the ever changing RS code but it might be a ploy on RS's part or it might just be that it's been so long since a loan completed in my book that I was just confused.(My excuse is that I am getting on in years and focus is elsewhere these days)
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,333
Likes: 2,753
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 21, 2020 16:34:23 GMT
As i was in 1 & 5 year and a small test in access i may not be the person to help but with regards your reinvestment at 4% in Max But on the day it happens are you getting in effect 2 payments?One of interest and of capital (probably the pennies you mention) plus a larger sum of capital rolled over at 4% which has not actually been paid out to you but is still a payment By setting your rate to 9% you should stop the interest and repayments paid to you (early repayments) from being lent but the rolled over capital continues at the rate you first invested Yes thats what I would expect. But the interest and capital are being lent out again but at the 4% not the 9% I have set. You have probably mainly amortising loans of a duration of up to 60 months. Every month you get a small proportion of capital and interest paid back. Due to the vagaries of the RS system as well as these payments you also see (for a short time) the remaining capital in your holding account, it never really is in your account, it is actually still lent to the borrower at the original rate (and the next time you look it appears that this sum has been lent out again!). Just the stupid way they display the repayments. (I think it may be a hangover from the old rolling market, where you could cash in loans every month). You may also have a few loans that don't pay any capital back until the end of the loan, for these you will only see interest payments and then a lump sum at the end. Edit: Crossed with above, took ages to try to phrase this!
|
|
aju
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 923
|
Post by aju on Nov 21, 2020 17:01:12 GMT
Yes thats what I would expect. But the interest and capital are being lent out again but at the 4% not the 9% I have set. You have probably mainly amortising loans of a duration of up to 60 months. Every month you get a small proportion of capital and interest paid back. Due to the vagaries of the RS system as well as these payments you also see (for a short time) the remaining capital in your holding account, it never really is in your account, it is actually still lent to the borrower at the original rate (and the next time you look it appears that this sum has been lent out again!). Just the stupid way they display the repayments. (I think it may be a hangover from the old rolling market, where you could cash in loans every month). You may also have a few loans that don't pay any capital back until the end of the loan, for these you will only see interest payments and then a lump sum at the end. Edit: Crossed with above, took ages to try to phrase this! rpearson , You should be able to s ee it in your transactions for the month - usually as follows Date Item Product Transaction Amount Balance04/11/2020 O997026579614 Access Lend order (£304.82) £2.5904/11/2020 C1314645071421 Access Interest £0.62 £307.4104/11/2020 C1314645071421 Access Capital repayment £304.82 £306.79 You also can see it in your loan contracts for the month - usually as follows Contract Contract Months Outstand Matched Next Int-less Date remaining Capital Rate Repayment Prov Fund C1341883393569 04/11/2020 1 £304.82 5.0% 03/12/2020 £0.59 The contract is renewed for this month and the old one is finished. Note the Lend Order ID Onnnnnnnnn (marked in red) that I did not find in my Loan or borrower details info other than in the transactions data.
Hope that helps.
|
|
macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 1,198
|
Post by macq on Nov 21, 2020 17:03:37 GMT
could be worse - we might be trying to explain LW
|
|
|
Post by rpearson on Nov 21, 2020 17:08:38 GMT
Thanks all.
I have also emailed RS with the question on this so will see what they say. At least I dont have a huge amount in RS so will just keep on logging in daily and hopefully I will catch amounts in my account before they get loaned out again. I have managed to get about 20% out this way over the last few months. I am number 9494 in the queue so hopefully this clears by early next year. Not worth me hassling too much over a smallish sum, I was just finding it very confusing and very non intuitive and was trying to get my mind around it.
Cheers Richard
|
|
aju
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 923
|
Post by aju on Nov 21, 2020 17:11:07 GMT
could be worse - we might be trying to explain LW I laughed at that until I realised i didn't really know what LW was. But after I thought about it a bit I assume it's Lending Works (I know little to nothing about that system though so could be wrong) Zopa is not every easy either but for different reasons.
|
|
macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 1,198
|
Post by macq on Nov 21, 2020 17:16:54 GMT
could be worse - we might be trying to explain LW I laughed at that until I realised i didn't really know what LW was. But after I thought about it a bit I assume it's Lending Works (I know little to nothing about that system though so could be wrong) Zopa is not every easy either but for different reasons. I find my wife laughs at my jokes until she realises what i meant then i'm in trouble p.s correct on LW and the fact you are not in it does not mean you know less about the system then the people in it!
|
|
aju
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 923
|
Post by aju on Nov 21, 2020 17:20:26 GMT
I laughed at that until I realised i didn't really know what LW was. But after I thought about it a bit I assume it's Lending Works (I know little to nothing about that system though so could be wrong) Zopa is not every easy either but for different reasons. I find my wife laughs at my jokes until she realises what i meant then i'm in trouble p.s correct on LW and the fact you are not in it does not mean you know less about the system then the people in it! Now that last one cheered me up no end thanks for that I got a bigger laugh knowing that I'mm not the only one ... Mrs aju is too busy to even notice a joke I crack and then she just pulls a funny "i'm bored" face and carries on with online shopping!
|
|
macq
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 1,198
|
Post by macq on Nov 21, 2020 17:35:14 GMT
I find my wife laughs at my jokes until she realises what i meant then i'm in trouble p.s correct on LW and the fact you are not in it does not mean you know less about the system then the people in it! Now that last one cheered me up no end thanks for that I got a bigger laugh knowing that I'mm not the only one ... Mrs aju is too busy to even notice a joke I crack and then she just pulls a funny "i'm bored" face and carries on with online shopping! I put a stop to my wife's online shopping with just one comment - but to be fair it was only after she threw the laptop at me for saying it
|
|
bt
Sir Bufton Tufton, Jean Paul Sartre Zippy, Bungle, Jeffrey Archer Andre Previn and the LSO Hello
Posts: 129
Likes: 53
|
Post by bt on Nov 21, 2020 20:46:05 GMT
Thanks all. I have also emailed RS with the question on this so will see what they say. At least I dont have a huge amount in RS so will just keep on logging in daily and hopefully I will catch amounts in my account before they get loaned out again. I have managed to get about 20% out this way over the last few months. I am number 9494 in the queue so hopefully this clears by early next year. Not worth me hassling too much over a smallish sum, I was just finding it very confusing and very non intuitive and was trying to get my mind around it.
Cheers RichardIt is very counter intuitive, we've all had to get our heads around it. I agree with all here, but this is my attempt at simplifying it: When you get a repayment, you would expect a small amount of capital and interest (which you can stop reinvesting and withdraw), and the bulk of the capital stays loaned. What actually happens is that they actually repay you all the capital, then immediately re-lend the difference on the same loan. So it looks like a big new loan at a low rate, but is just the underlying loan continuing. Hope that helps.
|
|
beagle
Investor in ratesetter, funding circle, lendy (lesson learnt) and AC
Posts: 670
Likes: 322
|
Post by beagle on Nov 21, 2020 22:34:47 GMT
Welcome to the forum rpearson , try reading this thread - p2pindependentforum.com/post/400766/thread and this post (also linked to on that thread) p2pindependentforum.com/post/380699 for an explanation on how the access accounts work. The thread isn't that long. Your money is being re-invested at 4% as it is tied to an underlying loan which will have a term up to 60 months, so what you get back each month is an amortised amount of capital and a months worth of interest, which could be just a few pennies or pounds depending how much you have invested.
I have never had RYI fees taken in advance and no-one here has ever reported that before, so I would check the Transaction history carefully to make sure that it was an RYI fee that was taken, and not something else like capital being re-lent. The transaction should be recorded as a "LenderExitMarketExitFee" if it is and your capital was not released then I would suggest you should get back to RS and make a formal complaint if necessary.
Hi The amount showing in the release request was my capital less the release amount so it was definitely taken up front. I did raise this with them in May when I requested the release. In my complaint to them I stated >On another note, the release fees should be taken when the cash is actually released, not upfront. From various forums etc online there are people complaining that they are waiting months for release and in the meantime they are losing any >interest on the fee amount. With larger amounts and months long waiting times this loss could be substantial. They replied back with >In relation to funds being released in the Max product, the release fee is 90 days worth of interest. I can see you have requested a withdrawal on 4th May 2020 and the release fee was £x. I replied back a few times complaining about it being taken up front but they did not bother to respond to any of my further emails. Part of what I was unhappy with was that just before they changed the rates I had upped my investment. Within a week or two this happened and then when I requested a release I was charged the fee on the full amount even though I had just put the money in. I was charged the 3 months interest release fee on the full amount even though the majority of it had just been deposited and hadnt even earned any interest at that stage. I read the other thread but still am confused about the reinvestments at 4% and not at the 9% that I have set. I can see in my transaction list a capital repayment appear then go out again on the same date as a lend order. checking the loans I can see that amount is at the 4%. I am guessing that the "reinvestment" is me actually buying a loan from somebody higher up the queue than me. Thanks Richard Ultimately that is the fee for releasing investment. you can side step this via rate adjustment but this fee is made pretty clear and to be fair of course they charge it up front at the point of calculation. Your rate going out at the same rate is just the same loan
|
|
littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,033
Likes: 1,857
|
Post by littleoldlady on Nov 21, 2020 23:01:15 GMT
Thanks all. I have also emailed RS with the question on this so will see what they say. At least I dont have a huge amount in RS so will just keep on logging in daily and hopefully I will catch amounts in my account before they get loaned out again. I have managed to get about 20% out this way over the last few months. I am number 9494 in the queue so hopefully this clears by early next year. Not worth me hassling too much over a smallish sum, I was just finding it very confusing and very non intuitive and was trying to get my mind around it.
Cheers RichardThis is not necessary. Provided you have set your required rate to the maximum it is vanishingly unlikely that it will be matched against a borrower willing to pay that match. The only reasons to log on are; - cash drag if you have an alternative home for it (if you do know of one please tell) - platform risk, practically none following Metro take over. If the amount is small logging on once a month would suffice - or even not at all until you are completely in cash. Just let it drip into your holding or on the market at 9% account.
|
|