kaya
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Post by kaya on Oct 10, 2014 19:27:00 GMT
All p2p's are different, but this p2p has a different feel to any other in many ways, especially in the Q&A's, with an openness of discussion that is not found anywhere, especially compared to the rude silence from borrowers often encountered on FC. Average rates are much higher, so is it riskier? How do the default percentages compare to others? Are Rebs loans more interesting than elsewhere? Does it have solid background staff doing their work in assessing prospective borrowers, or are they perhaps too interested in developing p2p software? Is Rebs going in the right direction? What do you think?
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ianb
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Post by ianb on Oct 11, 2014 5:06:21 GMT
To me, the attraction of Rebs is the longer auction time / borrower dialog which means you are properly making investment decisions as opposed to FC. Course, the high rates look good as well though I always have in the back of my mind these come at a price - presumably the borrowers come here because they cant get a lower rate elsewhere, so they are inherently, potentially, riskier to a degree. I know there has been a default or two this year but so far I haven't been affected (so far...but I will) so I cant comment on quantifying default rates. Being a fairly young platform, the rates will still be quite low. Staff seem OK to me on pre-screening and on customer service to investors, no one is perfect it seems in p2p. Overall I've been in about 6 months cautiously building up a portfolio and have been happy to date. When I began, the problem was struggling to fill auctions due to too few investors (even for what appeared good loans), that problem seems behind them now (course, dodgy ones wont fill...). Hope that helps.
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Post by jackpease on Oct 11, 2014 7:22:47 GMT
I think there is a cycle with these things - excitement - disappointment - anger - detachment - acceptance
IMHO I have completed the cycle with Funding Circle and now am a user not an enthusiast
Assetz is at the anger stage with many of us appreciating their corporate warmth a little too much and overextending our position based on the guys being nice and accessible, some on this board have moved onto the disappointment/anger stage as some loans start to look shaky. FK similarly for me.
Rebs/SS are at the excitement stage and their loan acceptance skills have yet to be tested but its got to come so I am not sure Rebs will be different
Zopa and RS don't count as users don't get those depressing default emails
Jack P
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Oct 11, 2014 10:19:45 GMT
Good summation of the P2P landscape. I would only add to FC is that you might want to change your mind about FC since they have taken to removing money from investors accounts without informing them of their actions. I thought that was piracy but with P2P who knows other than the FCA. See thread above.
Assetz seem to be having more than their fair share of problems with bridging loans not completing and a few other things including their computer system. Next week or is next month we are promised a new and much vaunted computer system full of bells and whistles and hopefully no b*lls ups. My guess is that the manner in which this system is received by the punters will either see AC spurt ahead or crash into the ashes.
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Oct 11, 2014 10:38:53 GMT
The clue is in the name. Building Societies have always been considered the friendly side of banking. It's the same here. For example: You get an advanced warning email if a loan is going to close early. One borrower (confectioner) offered discount and free samples to lenders. One borrower (small pub chain in London) invited lenders and the Rebs team to an evening drinks night in one of their pubs.
Rates are excellent, drawdown times vary but average about 5-10 days. I joined 5 months ago, diversified quickly and haven't had a default yet, dashboard currently averaging over 15% return, helped by 0.5% cashback for new lenders. The main downside is system speed and always doublecheck the interest rate box when making a bid. The danger is that lenders with deep pockets come in and drive down rates like FC.
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Vero
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Post by Vero on Oct 11, 2014 12:26:29 GMT
The clue is in the name. Building Societies have always been considered the friendly side of banking. It's the same here. For example: You get an advanced warning email if a loan is going to close early. One borrower (confectioner) offered discount and free samples to lenders. One borrower (small pub chain in London) invited lenders and the Rebs team to an evening drinks night in one of their pubs. Rates are excellent, drawdown times vary but average about 5-10 days. I joined 5 months ago, diversified quickly and haven't had a default yet, dashboard currently averaging over 15% return, helped by 0.5% cashback for new lenders. The main downside is system speed and always doublecheck the interest rate box when making a bid. The danger is that lenders with deep pockets come in and drive down rates like FC.
I tend to agree sqh and kaya. In the current crop of p2p, Rebs does feel different to me.
I live across the road from that pub and the owner is a young guy, working really hard, his mum does the books, we are all rooting for him. I was so happy I could lend to him, and at a lower rate (lenders pick their rate, it is not unusual to see very low bids too, we all have soft spots). I smile every time I walk past.
The biggest loan was £315k, to an existing borrower, to replace an expensive hire purchase agreement. Now it costs less AND he owns the equipment. There were tough, probing QAs from lenders and great crowd DD, but a lot of respect flowed, and hearty, happy congratulations/thanks/good wishes when the loan closed.
The restaurant borrower that was asked to explain why the restaurant was closed recently? Turns out it was for a staff member's wedding. Resounding response - 'ahh, lovely, that's what Rebs is about'.
The spinoff pet business from TOWIE - enterprising and clever young people!
The loan which the QA uncovered involved animal cruelty - it did not fill.
I could go on - I enjoy lending through Rebs, but I understand that caring is a luxury, in this tough old finance world. I so hope it continues, with sustainable growth.
I think I went through that "cycle", jackpease, with Rebs and back again - I lent on one of their few defaults. Many lenders did not want to pursue this guy aggressively, he still stood a chance and we really wanted him to pull through, and did NOT want to behave like the banks. He was not yet in default. Rebs spoke to him daily, he had big late paying customers (supermarkets) so Rebs introduced a cashflow consultant, who he hired to help with this. Meantimes another p2p company called in a PG aggressively and made him bankrupt almost overnight, just like a bank, blowing all his chances, poor guy. Rebs still have a dialog with him, the loan is not big and my part is only £200, but they have not forgotten it or written it off, with update emails every now and then. I'm over it now, but went through "disappointed/angry", and Rebs was criticised for being so trusting and "human" to the borrower. In hindsight, I can think of worse things to be.
I now have some lovely, diversified, Rebs loans and no reason to suspect a default right now, but even so Rebs' rates are high enough to cover it. (my average return since January is 16.55, including that £200 bad debt)
I have to say I also rate AC, for their strong security and backbone, but it's more business - Rebs, to me, is more feel good.
<sigh> on that note, I hope you all have a lovely weekend.
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Oct 14, 2014 18:25:23 GMT
Another example of the friendly face of Rebs P2P happened today. A borrower had a pre-approved mortgage to buy a restaurant but needed a loan to refurbish the restaurant. Rebuilding society lenders provided the loan but the bank providing the mortgage changed their mind. FC would have deleted all knowledge and left lenders wondering what happened. Rebs give a email explanation and 1% cashback on all bids for your patience.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 22:02:29 GMT
The loan which the QA uncovered involved animal cruelty - it did not fill.
The racists were out in force on that one: any excuse not to support Muslim businessmen. There's nothing wrong with supporting a business making halal sandwiches: those products would be on sale next to ordinary haram sandwiches (or haram and egg if you want a change), driving down the price, which is great for consumers of all faiths and none.
The real cause for concern was that usury is held in deep suspicion under austere Islam, so if a company's defining itself by its religious mission to provide food in accordance with the proper health and safety procedures for believers, it makes sense to worry that they may also be reluctant to continue making repayments once the principal has been returned.
Of course predictably people cared about taking a futile and bigoted stand against practices their personal ethics didn't support but didn't give a damn about the underlying incompatibility of the loan terms!!
It does make me smile.
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ianb
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Post by ianb on Oct 17, 2014 15:52:54 GMT
Ha ha - so I'm a racist if I didn't bid on that loan am I ? That's a good one. Does that mean we can now expect questions on each loan as to directors ethnicity and name and shame sessions for investors on here ? I'll look forward to that - it'll be a change from the rather repetitive tirades made against training companies on the platform.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Oct 17, 2014 18:21:06 GMT
I lent on one of their few defaults. Many lenders did not want to pursue this guy aggressively, he still stood a chance and we really wanted him to pull through, and did NOT want to behave like the banks. He was not yet in default. Rebs spoke to him daily, he had big late paying customers (supermarkets) so Rebs introduced a cashflow consultant, who he hired to help with this. Meantimes another p2p company called in a PG aggressively and made him bankrupt almost overnight, just like a bank, blowing all his chances, poor guy. Was this CBL?
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Oct 17, 2014 18:44:11 GMT
I take the point about REBS wanting to "do the right thing". I understand that a lot of their borrowers are more into running the business, customers, delivering to spec on time and so on and not so clued up on accounting, which is sort of ok
I would be a lot happier if: we got to see the original accounts, signed by an qualified accountant, not just REBS recast version we got to see longer history not just 2 years or so we got with each loan a full explanation of the security/pg and the originals of any valuation we got with each loan some explanation as to why they have to resort to such expensive money, why the bank said no maybe a credit ref
I think it's comparatively easy for borrowers to be economical with the truth, I don't think anyone visits the premises
Can anyone remind me how REBS make their money. In particular do they make more money as each repayment comes in?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 16:51:21 GMT
Ha ha - so I'm a racist if I didn't bid on that loan am I ? . No but presumably the guy called Mod: removed or whatever it was, may possibly have been. There's also the general idea that halal practices are somehow unethical while taking taxpayers' money to make a profit from unemployed people being desperate to work for nothing is just fine. As Spooner said, if progressives think you're a conservative and conservatives think you're a liberal, you're probably doing something right. The point with the sarnies was it was a niche: garage food's overpriced, so increasing the supply would've been a good thing whether you ate the new ones or the existing ones. The time to vote with your conscience is at the sarnie shelf. Mod: please don't name people.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 16:56:23 GMT
I think it's comparatively easy for borrowers to be economical with the truth, I don't think anyone visits the premises Can anyone remind me how REBS make their money. In particular do they make more money as each repayment comes in? They take a cut of the interest paid, plus fees on the secondary market. You're absolutely right, the culture right now is of basically get as much debt as you possibly can and lie as much as you need to. Cross your fingers and hope the next loan comes through before the last one fails. That's not the fault of P2P companies, it's the fault of the BoE, the Treasury and the Warfare-Welfare State. If we got back to Victorian values of saving and under-consumption, we'd all be better off but there's scarcely anyone left alive who remembers what it was like before the Cultural Revolution.
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