star dust
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,998
Likes: 3,531
|
Post by star dust on Nov 26, 2018 21:52:13 GMT
It seems rather clear that receivers are likely to be appointed in the case of a depressing number of loans, and in my view the sooner this happens the better, take the deterioration in the Bolton property as an example. I’m just a lay person here, and it may not be appropriate in all cases, but I would hope that certainly for some of the smaller/medium property loans fixed fee or payment by results services could be engaged. In addition, perhaps consideration should be given to using local expertise and firms rather than the larger centrally based ones. I also hope that these services are tendered, on the other hand I wouldn’t want BDO seeing this as another opportunity to charge extra for following due process, or allow undue delays or protraction. In my experience, where necessary tendering can have a very fast turn-around. I think these issues are something the CC could raise if minded, Monetus? Indeed as the report states “we do not provide further details of the negotiations and enforcement action being taken in relation to each loan in this report. I can confirm, however, that the Joint Administrators are liaising closely with the Committee throughout this process” and further on the purpose of the Committee "generally acting as a sounding board for the Joint Administrators to obtain views on matters pertaining to the administrations"?
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,206
Likes: 11,396
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 26, 2018 21:54:39 GMT
Sadly I am not at all surprised that there has been hardly any progress in the last 6 months and they still haven't achieved the basic task of extracting the data from the database and they have only recovered just over £100,000 but have managed to rack up half of that in their own fees. Unfortunately ,as I feared at the outset, I think this is going to be dragged out for years and the majority of recovered funds will end up in the back pockets of BDO and their favoured advisers like the solicitors and GVA etc. Even the simplest of tasks that any averagely competent person could achieve in 1 week will take them 6 months to achieve and many many very expensive hours involving a variety of external consultants who are all on the payroll so to speak. I think it is now clear why certain forum members who are now banned were so keen to get BDO on the job and were telling us they were ready to hit the ground running and why the same were so keen to get their people on the creditors' committee - because of course we found out they were not being honest with us, had failed to declare vested interests and had close connections with BDO and there was a secret special syndicate of people. I fear the man in the street retail type of investor who does not go to the Lodge and did not go to the right school and does not have connections with the secret syndicate and BDO will end up being shafted so hard that there will be a national vaseline shortage as investors take every measure possible to try and ease their pain. Only if you consider years to be another 6 months. Administration ends in April 2019 and they dont plan to extend it.
Who didnt declare a vested interest? Assuming you are refering to the former IP, he was pretty clear he was an IP & had contacts in the industry. Who else has vested interest on the CC or in general? Have you any evidence to support that or are just flinging out wild accusations to alleviate your own self-flagellation for not escaping the mire and ruining your Mr 12%?
What evidence in the report is there that any 'secret syndicate,' if one exists, (evidence?) is going to come out of it any better than anyone else. Following your logic if they had some sort of special deal then they are likely to have more money involved and probably in the property loans, which were the ones Collateral had to offer incentives for. Evidence suggests that property loans are going to be the ones with major shortfalls as DFLs so I expect the main 'street investor' may well come out it far better than any big investors 'lodge members, syndicates, Russians or alien'
On fees, 3-5% of realisation is the sums usually quoted for costs that I have seen elsewhere. 700k is within that range but obvious becomse more disprorportionate if realisations are discounted. Note we are also getting 10-15% discount as negotiated with the FCA
Certainly not happy at the lack of progress but not really out of line with my realistic expectations.
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Nov 26, 2018 22:09:10 GMT
[...] Unfortunately ,as I feared at the outset, I think this is going to be dragged out for years and the majority of recovered funds will end up in the back pockets of BDO and their favoured advisers like the solicitors and GVA etc. [...] Only if you consider years to be another 6 months. Administration ends in April 2019 and they dont plan to extend it. [...] Isn't that simply splitting hairs ? I'm happy to be corrected but I thought all that happens in April 19 is the name changes from being "Administration" to "Liquidation" but the underlying work to recover the loans will continue to be led by BDO employing other professionals as required. I kind of expect you realise that most of the loans won't be recovered over the next 5 months, so I'm not really sure what you are getting at here.
|
|
GeorgeT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,321
Likes: 1,575
|
Post by GeorgeT on Nov 26, 2018 22:15:41 GMT
Sadly I am not at all surprised that there has been hardly any progress in the last 6 months and they still haven't achieved the basic task of extracting the data from the database and they have only recovered just over £100,000 but have managed to rack up half of that in their own fees. Unfortunately ,as I feared at the outset, I think this is going to be dragged out for years and the majority of recovered funds will end up in the back pockets of BDO and their favoured advisers like the solicitors and GVA etc. Even the simplest of tasks that any averagely competent person could achieve in 1 week will take them 6 months to achieve and many many very expensive hours involving a variety of external consultants who are all on the payroll so to speak. I think it is now clear why certain forum members who are now banned were so keen to get BDO on the job and were telling us they were ready to hit the ground running and why the same were so keen to get their people on the creditors' committee - because of course we found out they were not being honest with us, had failed to declare vested interests and had close connections with BDO and there was a secret special syndicate of people. I fear the man in the street retail type of investor who does not go to the Lodge and did not go to the right school and does not have connections with the secret syndicate and BDO will end up being shafted so hard that there will be a national vaseline shortage as investors take every measure possible to try and ease their pain. Only if you consider years to be another 6 months. Administration ends in April 2019 and they dont plan to extend it.
Who didnt declare a vested interest? Assuming you are refering to the former IP, he was pretty clear he was an IP & had contacts in the industry. Who else has vested interest on the CC or in general? Have you any evidence to support that or are just flinging out wild accusations to alleviate your own self-flagellation for not escaping the mire and ruining your Mr 12%?
What evidence in the report is there that any 'secret syndicate,' if one exists, (evidence?) is going to come out of it any better than anyone else. Following your logic if they had some sort of special deal then they are likely to have more money involved and probably in the property loans, which were the ones Collateral had to offer incentives for. Evidence suggests that property loans are going to be the ones with major shortfalls as DFLs so I expect the main 'street investor' may well come out it far better than any big investors 'lodge members, syndicates, Russians or alien'
On fees, 3-5% of realisation is the sums usually quoted for costs that I have seen elsewhere. 700k is within that range but obvious becomse more disprorportionate if realisations are discounted. Note we are also getting 10-15% discount as negotiated with the FCA
Certainly not happy at the lack of progress but not really out of line with my realistic expectations.
when I wrote that post I had just finished reading the first few pages of the report and like everybody else I think, I was deeply disappointed and feeling a sense of great frustration. Of course, in these situations we should all take some time out to calm down before writing or saying anything and I didn't do that. Therefore I was a little strong in some of what I wrote but nonetheless I didn't pluck any concepts out of thin air and I think I wrote little that hasn't been alluded to previously. However I am not going to bet all my worldly goods against the veracity of every word I wrote and for that I apologise. in very simple terms I am very disappointed at the lack of progress over the last 6 months. I am very disappointed that even the most basic of tasks such as getting the data in order have not been accomplished despite very large fees already having been racked up and I remain uncomfortable about the motives and interests of the persons handling the administration and the interests and motives of certain members of the creditors committee. I do not include Monetus in my criticism and I thank him for his efforts but I remain of the opinion that his pragmatism and reasonableness will be outvoted by those with different fish to fry.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,399
Likes: 2,889
|
Post by michaelc on Nov 26, 2018 22:17:17 GMT
What evidence in the report is there that any 'secret syndicate,' if one exists, (evidence?) Why does that evidence need to come from the report? I'm a bit tired right now but there is plenty of evidence that such a syndicate exists and was very active on this forum until some of its members rightly got turfed out. I have nobody to blame but myself, but I was definitely influenced by several members of that syndicate in my investment choices before I realised some of what was going on.
|
|
|
Post by slopsjon on Nov 26, 2018 22:19:17 GMT
I've not received this report yet.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,206
Likes: 11,396
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 26, 2018 22:24:50 GMT
Only if you consider years to be another 6 months. Administration ends in April 2019 and they dont plan to extend it. [...] Isn't that simply splitting hairs ? I'm happy to be corrected but I thought all that happens in April 19 is the name changes from being "Administration" to "Liquidation" but the underlying work to recover the loans will continue to be led by BDO employing other professionals as required. I kind of expect you realise that most of the loans won't be recovered over the next 5 months, so I'm not really sure what you are getting at here. Fair point
|
|
|
Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 26, 2018 22:33:00 GMT
I've not received this report yet. Copy here courtesy of Star Dust Report
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,206
Likes: 11,396
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 26, 2018 22:40:20 GMT
What evidence in the report is there that any 'secret syndicate,' if one exists, (evidence?) Why does that evidence need to come from the report? I'm a bit tired right now but there is plenty of evidence that such a syndicate exists and was very active on this forum until some of its members rightly got turfed out. I have nobody to blame but myself, but I was definitely influenced by several members of that syndicate in my investment choices before I realised some of what was going on. Perhaps if you quoted the full sentence you would note I didnt say evidence from the report of a 'secret syndicate' I said
What evidence in the report is there that any 'secret syndicate,' if one exists, (evidence?) is going to come out of it any better than anyone else?
(evidence?) was referring to general evidence not report specific evidence.
Perhaps you could link to some of this evidence as I appear to have missed all these people advocating certain investments? Ive just skim read a few of the property loans and I neither note massive pro-posts or a heavy presence from any of the 'presumed' banned. Or do you mean advocating the platform as a whole? I note GeorgeT was big fan but I assume you dont mean him.
|
|
locutus
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 1,622
|
Post by locutus on Nov 26, 2018 22:56:52 GMT
What evidence in the report is there that any 'secret syndicate,' if one exists, (evidence?) is going to come out of it any better than anyone else?
The exact same fantastical evidence used when posters here were convinced of the borrower's identity in the art loans on FS. Rumour and fact are interchangeable for some around here.
|
|
|
Post by dan1 on Nov 26, 2018 22:58:29 GMT
A personal reflection.... I'm not prone to feelings of regret, as a general rule, however each time I receive a communication from BDO I'm reminded of the Are Collateral (UK) Ltd undertaking developments themselves? thread. I had the chance to act but I chose not to; that is my regret. In particular, the following point made so eloquently by registerme in response to Collateral Rep : ... 4. Consideration of platform risk is an essential aspect of P2P lending. Lenders are, in every case, investing funds via what are startup businesses. Having a view on the operational risks faced by such businesses is useful, as is understanding if there is any balance sheet pressure.
...
|
|
GeorgeT
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,321
Likes: 1,575
|
Post by GeorgeT on Nov 26, 2018 23:11:16 GMT
A personal reflection.... I'm not prone to feelings of regret, as a general rule, however each time I receive a communication from BDO I'm reminded of the Are Collateral (UK) Ltd undertaking developments themselves? thread. I had the chance to act but I chose not to; that is my regret. In particular, the following point made so eloquently by registerme in response to Collateral Rep : ... 4. Consideration of platform risk is an essential aspect of P2P lending. Lenders are, in every case, investing funds via what are startup businesses. Having a view on the operational risks faced by such businesses is useful, as is understanding if there is any balance sheet pressure.
... This is a good and fair point but my response is to add that even I would not be so stupid as to invest money with a company that did not have permission to be offering financial services in the first place. While I think we all understood that our money was not protected by the fscs, I think we were all acting at least on the belief that the business was operating legally and was registered with the FCA. When that same false information even appeared on the FCA website - the very people who are supposed to be protecting us from scammers etc. - I dont think that anybody was investing with an understanding of the actual risk involved because it was impossible for anybody to know the risk because the FCA themselves had misled us. I am sure that will be something that becomes increasingly important in this matter and I know that posters on the forum such as ozboy have,rightly, encouraged us all to be vociferous on this point. I am beginning to have sympathy with the bearded DJ who is currently eating cockroaches in the jungle. I understand he gave the FCA chiefs a rocket. not that I watch rubbish like that on the television but I can't avoid seeing the front pages of the tabloids.
|
|
Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
Posts: 2,011
Likes: 1,013
|
Post by Godanubis on Nov 26, 2018 23:27:05 GMT
Hey guys some of your replies are nearly as long as BDO report. I.ve got every email sent to me by collateral and land registry must hold first charges. The bank records can’t have disappeared so payments must be traceable relatively easily. Were funds for winding up not supposed to be ring fenced if they were trying to be FCA approved. ?
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,206
Likes: 11,396
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 26, 2018 23:47:10 GMT
Hey guys some of your replies are nearly as long as BDO report. I.ve got every email sent to me by collateral and land registry must hold first charges. The bank records can’t have disappeared so payments must be traceable relatively easily. Were funds for winding up not supposed to be ring fenced if they were trying to be FCA approved. ? Sorry, what's your point? First charges merely mean the security exists, it still has to be realised and is clear from the report that it is not proving easy to maximise value in all cases. Tracing payments? From whom? FCA approved platforms are required to have winding up plan but Collateral were not approved. They did have a funded winding up plan but it was rejected by the FCA so a moot point. Those funds are now assets of the company AIUI.
|
|
|
Post by peerlessperil on Nov 26, 2018 23:56:33 GMT
I do wonder if I'm on a different planet today.
So the administrators have now had a good look around and all the chattel loans seem to actually exist. Those Jewellery Grouped Asset Loans and the bling items actually exist, the borrowers haven't vanished into thin air and there is actually stock being surrendered, even if it is unlikely to be worth anything near the numbers the LTVs are based on (and given retail pricing tends to incorporate a 50% margin just what was everyone expecting?). Auction fees will take another bite, but some value will be extracted.
For a platform failure where the directors were not called Michael and Gabriel this is not a bad result.
|
|