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Post by df on Nov 14, 2018 22:00:49 GMT
itsnotme there is no A *or* B defaulting. B cannot default without A also. There is only - the whole projects defaults. Maybe read through the Birkenhead thread and it might make more sense? The capital recovered *SO FAR* only covered something like 2 thirds of tranche A. So there is nothing for tranche B capital yet. And no interest for anbody. Edit - that should be.... No *further* interest for anybody. I can't remember if birks had retained interest, and then how many months were paid before default. But this c********** loan has 9 months retained. So your guaranteed that, at least!!! As a norm, there is a fair bit of gamble in this type of loans. In best scenario you'll get your 12%+bonus, in worst you can loose 90% of your capital and it can be anything in between. So far MT's recovery records are very good in comparison to some other platforms, so I'm still happy to invest in property loans coming through MT, but significantly less than in the past.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 14, 2018 22:15:32 GMT
itsnotme there is no A *or* B defaulting. B cannot default without A also. There is only - the whole projects defaults. Maybe read through the Birkenhead thread and it might make more sense? The capital recovered *SO FAR* only covered something like 2 thirds of tranche A. So there is nothing for tranche B capital yet. And no interest for anbody. Edit - that should be.... No *further* interest for anybody. I can't remember if birks had retained interest, and then how many months were paid before default. But this c********** loan has 9 months retained. So your guaranteed that, at least!!! As a norm, there is a fair bit of gamble in this type of loans. In best scenario you'll get your 12%+bonus, in worst you can loose 90% of your capital and it can be anything in between. So far MT's recovery records are very good in comparison to some other platforms, so I'm still happy to invest in property loans coming through MT, but significantly less than in the past. Hopefully it is an indication that Moneything are moving to a different model on bigger loans, where loans will be offered in tiered risk bands, probably expanding on the two bands in this offering. As an example four bands of 25% of the whole loan, band A offered at a low rate and raising to a high rate of the last band which would reflect the greater risk of that portion. Now where have I seen that before.
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Post by df on Nov 14, 2018 22:33:54 GMT
As a norm, there is a fair bit of gamble in this type of loans. In best scenario you'll get your 12%+bonus, in worst you can loose 90% of your capital and it can be anything in between. So far MT's recovery records are very good in comparison to some other platforms, so I'm still happy to invest in property loans coming through MT, but significantly less than in the past. Hopefully it is an indication that Moneything are moving to a different model on bigger loans, where loans will be offered in tiered risk bands, probably expanding on the two bands in this offering. As an example four bands of 25% of the whole loan, band A offered at a low rate and raising to a high rate of the last band which would reflect the greater risk of that portion. Now where have I seen that before. Bolton by Collateral? Probably not because it had four bands all together (incl. the original). Can't recall any FS offerings stretching as far as five bands? Ly were offering 1% extra for some tranches... I agree, it's a good strategy for filling difficult loans.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 14, 2018 22:48:01 GMT
Hopefully it is an indication that Moneything are moving to a different model on bigger loans, where loans will be offered in tiered risk bands, probably expanding on the two bands in this offering. As an example four bands of 25% of the whole loan, band A offered at a low rate and raising to a high rate of the last band which would reflect the greater risk of that portion. Now where have I seen that before. Bolton by Collateral? Probably not because it had four bands all together (incl. the original). Can't recall any FS offerings stretching as far as five bands? Ly were offering 1% extra for some tranches... I agree, it's a good strategy for filling difficult loans. I was actually thinking more extreme. Something like A 25% of loan 1st Ranking 4% B 25% of loan 2nd Ranking 6% C 25% of loan 3rd Ranking 10% D 25% of loan 4th Ranking 18% Obviously if this is adopted, I would anticipate a consultancy fee.
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Post by mrclondon on Nov 14, 2018 23:02:17 GMT
Can't recall any FS offerings stretching as far as five bands? Don't you just hate it when some smart **** immediately contradicts you FS Scarborough and FS A-L Hampshire both have 5 separate ranking slices - there may be others, I only have the tranche records for the loans I'm in. (Lots of examples of 4 though)
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 14, 2018 23:12:22 GMT
The relaunched tranches A + B together have already (in 9 hours) raised almost as much as the original loan attracted in a full month. There’s a decent chance it can fill by Friday (or get close enough to be extended a little)
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Nov 14, 2018 23:17:33 GMT
Can't recall any FS offerings stretching as far as five bands? Don't you just hate it when some smart **** immediately contradicts you FS Scarborough and FS A-L Hampshire both have 5 separate ranking slices - there may be others, I only have the tranche records for the loans I'm in. (Lots of examples of 4 though) Ooh, there's a challenge. Does the slightly structurally unsound (but ultimately successful) Surrey barn loan win? Before consolidation, 3337440850 was the 9th ranking loan..FS being FS, you could earn 10.5% on the 1st ranking, and a full 12% on the 9th and still only at 30.9% LTV, plenty of room for another 10 loans!
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 14, 2018 23:20:02 GMT
The relaunched tranches A + B together have already (in 9 hours) raised almost as much as the original loan attracted in a full month. There’s a decent chance it can fill by Friday (or get close enough to be extended a little) Given that I now want it to fill, I won't point out that one would have expected all the funds previously invested to be put straight back in. Almost suggests that some who invested before fairly confident it would not fill have opted out. Edit. It is also possible some of them have not noticed yet.
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sj
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Post by sj on Nov 14, 2018 23:36:58 GMT
I think as long as your within your diversified limits, it's just as much of a punt as any other p2p offering on any other platform. That is just plain wrong - it is a much riskier punt. Assuming that the sale price of any random defaulted property loan on MT is a given percentage (30%, 50%, 70% or whatever) then obviously you run a risk of ZERO capital returned if you are in Tranche B if the sale amount is say 59% (whereas a "normal" loan at least gets back 59% of capital). If the sale goes well and it's 80% recovery of capital, then you'd only get 50% of your investment back. It is a FAR riskier proposition as a result. Hence the high interest rate obviously. Tranche B is effectively a second charge loan.
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amwinv
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Post by amwinv on Nov 14, 2018 23:41:15 GMT
I think as long as your within your diversified limits, it's just as much of a punt as any other p2p offering on any other platform. That is just plain wrong - it is a much riskier punt. Assuming that the sale price of any random defaulted property loan on MT is a given percentage (30%, 50%, 70% or whatever) then obviously you run a risk of ZERO capital returned if you are in Tranche B if the sale amount is say 59% (whereas a "normal" loan at least gets back 59% of capital). If the sale goes well and it's 80% recovery of capital, then you'd only get 50% of your investment back. It is a FAR riskier proposition as a result. Hence the high interest rate obviously. Tranche B is effectively a second charge loan.
Oh, I meant the A tranche in that sentence. Probably should have clarified. The B is obviously a roll of some dangerous dice. But what's life without a bit of spice eh?
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dermot
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Post by dermot on Nov 14, 2018 23:56:40 GMT
I find the relaunched version a lot more appealing and will throw a bit if cash in, if something else sells/repays shortly.
Just sold off a few bits, as I needed some cash for a new central heating boiler. Bloody hell, four and a half grand fitted is a bit steep, almost felt like trying to raise cash on P2P to fund it ...
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amwinv
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Post by amwinv on Nov 15, 2018 0:47:27 GMT
Just sold off a few bits, as I needed some cash for a new central heating boiler. Bloody hell, four and a half grand fitted is a bit steep, almost felt like trying to raise cash on P2P to fund it ... Blimey. Should have set up an SPV, funded it on FC, and then gone immediately into administration. Free boiler.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Nov 15, 2018 4:01:30 GMT
I find the relaunched version a lot more appealing and will throw a bit if cash in, if something else sells/repays shortly. Just sold off a few bits, as I needed some cash for a new central heating boiler. Bloody hell, four and a half grand fitted is a bit steep, almost felt like trying to raise cash on P2P to fund it ... I would have opted out quicker than I did this loan...I have asset backed boilers in default on TC! Edit - crossed with amwinv
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Nov 15, 2018 5:41:16 GMT
Having been burned in the past when current value is actually residual value....
Does anyone know what current value means here?
If tomorrow the property default and goes into open market sales: - would the property be marketed for 2,700k as written or likely much lower? - would a discount of 10-20% allow for a quick sale?
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Nov 15, 2018 8:23:11 GMT
Having been burned in the past when current value is actually residual value.... Does anyone know what current value means here? If tomorrow the property default and goes into open market sales: - would the property be marketed for 2,700k as written or likely much lower? - would a discount of 10-20% allow for a quick sale? Current value is as you read in the valuation report. It is based on the revenues of a successful pizza parlour and room lettings at c90%. (The bar is open so hopefully those revenues are realistic.) The value now for an incomplete development without those forecast revenues would be substantially different. You could try purchase price + capex + some goodwill for the bar but who knows what that might get in auction - not us and certainly not RICS.
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