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Post by sayyestocress on Feb 13, 2018 13:46:54 GMT
Yeah; 3, 5 and 6 are where most improvements are needed IMO.
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carolus
Member of DD Central
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Post by carolus on Feb 15, 2018 12:43:44 GMT
Email received about upcoming changes. The key points: - Minimum investment increasing to £100
- Removal of Secondary Market
- Exit votes on all Buy to Let properties
- A survey to investigate how to improve communication
My thoughts on these: The increase in minimum investment is justified by the fact that 2/3 of the primary market investments are <£100 but that this raises only 4% of the total. So this seems pretty clearly designed to eliminate most of the customer base - less work for PM to handle, presumably. I can't imagine that most of those 2/3 would increase their minimum investments to £100 (I certainly wouldn't!). It's unclear to me how "by having a slightly larger minimum investment level, we will better be able to communicate with our customers." beyond the fact that there will be far fewer customers. Removal of the secondary market seems slightly unexpected. If it's really the case that MiFIDII and GDPR are going to cause such an impact on secondary markets then I'd expect we'll see them go on lots of other sites as well soon. It seems to me that this is a change that benefits PM (less work) rather than the customers. They mention that to keep it running would require increased fees for it, but I'm not clear why no SM is better than SM with higher (but clear) fees. It also strikes me that the removal of the SM means that PM no longer have to worry about periodic revaluations or, really, keeping investors updated about the property. Once you're locked in there would be no way out anyway. Exit votes are presumably to provide a one off way out for investors who can't exit on the SM before it is removed, but judging by past votes it doesn't seem likely to me that many will vote to sell. Survey to improve communication seems a little like a way to not have to worry baout how to improve communication themselves, and there seems to be a lot of self-justification about how they already provide plenty of information (I would disagree with them on this). HMOs, presumably now never coming back onto the SM so no way out of them unless they happen to sell on the exit vote. Very disappointing that we were told they would be coming back soon and that the claimed "revaluation" was obviously not the whole story (although that was perhaps clear to us all along). Disappointingly, but perhaps not surprisingly, no mention of improving process to try and eliminate errors in payments, deductions etc. Overall, these updates seem designed to decrease work for PM, not to improve customer experience. If I hadn't already exited everything (apart from two unsellable HMOs and a Buy to sell) then this would probably cause me to withdraw if I could. The £100 minimum alone would probably push me out, and removal of SM certainly would. |
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damar
Member of DD Central
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Post by damar on Feb 15, 2018 13:00:53 GMT
Email received about upcoming changes. The key points: - Minimum investment increasing to £100
- Removal of Secondary Market
- Exit votes on all Buy to Let properties
- A survey to investigate how to improve communication
Minimum investment not worried about - I will invest no more in PM Removal of secondary market - this is a big issue for me, I don't believe it was communicated when i invested that the secondary market could be withdrawn without notice. Exit vote - lets hope we can get one on my last remaining investment. A Survey to improve communication - this made me laugh out loud. Communication Survey Q1 how do you rate Property Moose's communication 1. Abismal 2. incredulous 3. What Communication
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Post by sayyestocress on Feb 15, 2018 13:23:32 GMT
...Overall, these updates seem designed to decrease work for PM, not to improve customer experience... 100% this!
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Feb 15, 2018 14:59:29 GMT
You see with PM votes, I presume it is 1 share 1 vote (not 1 investor 1 vote)?
I know it should be, but then, ahem, it is PM...
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Feb 15, 2018 15:05:35 GMT
6 could be a stumbling block as removing properties from the secondary market could be misconstrued as post-sale barriersIf suspending a few properties from the SM was a stumbling block, what is removing the SM? I am really unhappy about this. I think that potentially PM should be offering to buy the shares from us. A bit like RS offering a fee free sellout when they moved the goal posts. The very least they could offer is to waive the 2% fee for the short time we have left.
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Post by propertymoose on Feb 15, 2018 15:25:29 GMT
Carolus - to answer your points:
MIFID II and GDPR are regulations that have been brought in/are coming in and which are to be implemented based on a firm's view on risks. If we get it wrong, the implications are catastrophic and it is simply not worth the risk until more clarity on the impact of the regulations can be sought. This takes time and money to work with the lawyers and barristers and so, for now, we are just not able to continue with having that risk. I do hope the secondary market will return but rather than create uncertainty for members (which has been flagged here as being a poor point of communication for us), we have to take it off and give people the chance to vote to start the exit process.
The survey is purely there to engage our members in a constructive way. Already today I have had several phone calls with members who offer their full support and understanding. I regularly speak to members who reach out and we feel that our communication regarding the properties on a monthly basis goes beyond most platforms. Despite our views, there are a number of people on here that are clearly unhappy with the communication and we want to use the survey as a means of improving the service rather than shooting in the dark. Again, something we're doing because we want to improve and create a better platform for everyone. We know we need to improve things and are asking for engagement to make that happen.
Your comment about improving payments/deductions etc is noted and by streamlining the business it will have a knock-on effect on other areas (in a positive way). In addition, there will be further announcements on this point in the coming weeks once we have contracts agreed with the relevant parties.
Jnm21 - thank you for the suggestion about waiving the fee on sales. We're looking into making that change to the technology now with our team and will confirm when this can take place (and how it will work if we can't just set the fee to zero as it's hard coded).
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damar
Member of DD Central
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Post by damar on Feb 15, 2018 15:40:55 GMT
Carolus - to answer your points: MIFID II and GDPR are regulations that have been brought in/are coming in and which are to be implemented based on a firm's view on risks. If we get it wrong, the implications are catastrophic and it is simply not worth the risk until more clarity on the impact of the regulations can be sought. This takes time and money to work with the lawyers and barristers and so, for now, we are just not able to continue with having that risk. I do hope the secondary market will return but rather than create uncertainty for members (which has been flagged here as being a poor point of communication for us), we have to take it off and give people the chance to vote to start the exit process. The survey is purely there to engage our members in a constructive way. Already today I have had several phone calls with members who offer their full support and understanding. I regularly speak to members who reach out and we feel that our communication regarding the properties on a monthly basis goes beyond most platforms. Despite our views, there are a number of people on here that are clearly unhappy with the communication and we want to use the survey as a means of improving the service rather than shooting in the dark. Again, something we're doing because we want to improve and create a better platform for everyone. We know we need to improve things and are asking for engagement to make that happen. Your comment about improving payments/deductions etc is noted and by streamlining the business it will have a knock-on effect on other areas (in a positive way). In addition, there will be further announcements on this point in the coming weeks once we have contracts agreed with the relevant parties. Jnm21 - thank you for the suggestion about waiving the fee on sales. We're looking into making that change to the technology now with our team and will confirm when this can take place (and how it will work if we can't just set the fee to zero as it's hard coded). Was this known in October when some HMO's were pulled with no warning (which means no communication) and we were told they were being revalued. A good place to start with good communication is the truth.......look it up
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Post by propertymoose on Feb 15, 2018 15:50:18 GMT
Thanks Damar.
No it was not. MIFID II started in January 2018. In September 2017 we spent several thousands of pounds on legal fees to allow us to continue with the secondary market for the period up to the launch of MIFID II. GDPR has not come in yet, as you will know.
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Feb 15, 2018 17:26:42 GMT
I look forward to the zero fees on sales on the secondary market over the limited time it has left. This message was delayed by a significant conversation with Andrew Gardener - I have to say it was very positive & I will try to recall the various positives (and of course any negatives) & post it up over the weekend. I would say that my negative outlook on PM is now cautiously optimistic - I would again consider investing (in the future), which I have not seriously considered in about 3 months & having intensified my attempts to sell out over that period. I would strongly suggest that anyone with concerns takes the time to speak with PM before panic selling (even if I am at a confidence where I would consider snapping them up  )! |
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Post by davids on Feb 15, 2018 17:34:00 GMT
There's a few nice looking ones up for sale currently, about £1.30 discount per share, so i guess some people are panic selling. I crumbled and took a small nibble!
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Feb 15, 2018 17:49:35 GMT
There's a few nice looking ones up for sale currently, about £1.30 discount per share, so i guess some people are panic selling. I crumbled and took a small nibble! I have no recollection of coming across you before today, so please do not take offence at this comment (you may have 100 times my P2P experience, which would not be difficult  ) - do take the discount with half a truck of salt - I have no idea where some of them come from & aside from as a very crude way of sorting the SM listings, would give them zero credence! I am keen to have a look myself - more so after talking to PM.
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carolus
Member of DD Central
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Post by carolus on Feb 15, 2018 17:52:45 GMT
Many thanks for getting back to me so promptly propertymoose, and additionally (which I should have said in my first post) for making the announcements within the timeframe you previously mentioned. MIFID II and GDPR are regulations that have been brought in/are coming in and which are to be implemented based on a firm's view on risks. If we get it wrong, the implications are catastrophic and it is simply not worth the risk until more clarity on the impact of the regulations can be sought. This takes time and money to work with the lawyers and barristers and so, for now, we are just not able to continue with having that risk. I do hope the secondary market will return but rather than create uncertainty for members (which has been flagged here as being a poor point of communication for us), we have to take it off and give people the chance to vote to start the exit process. It's certainly a disappointing feature to lose and perhaps a shame that the notice period for its removal is only two weeks, but I appreciate that you must comply with the new regualtiosn and that your take may be different from that of other companies. I'm very glad to hear this, and hopefully the communication issues can be identified and sorted out. It's very interesting to hear this - I'll keep an eye out for them. I think this combined with improvements (and consistency) regarding communication would go a long way to improving the Property Moose platform. As I think I've mentioned before on this forum, I like the idea of PM, and would like it to succeed, I just haven't been impressed with the current iteration. These updates don't resolve all my issues, but overall I'm feeling somewhat more optimistic about the platform's future, and if these two issues in particular can be addressed I might consider returning to the platform in future, even with the £100 limit in place. I have to say as well that the newfound enthusiasm from @jmn21 is encouraging! |
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Post by davids on Feb 15, 2018 17:54:40 GMT
I'm much more of a sit back and read person (lurker) i did do a bit more digging that biggest discount  the main one i took a nibble out of has been rented for the last 8 months and nothing other than the usual deductions. I think this will be me for equity p2p, the £100 min investment, given my current situation does put me off. |
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Post by propertymoose on Feb 15, 2018 17:57:55 GMT
Thanks jnm21.
For anyone that does want to arrange a call back, please email chloe@propertymoose.co.uk who will find a time that works to speak.
As jnm21 kindly points out, the discounts are linked to the latest valuations we have on file so please do make sure you review the information and make your own assessments using the publicly available tools such as RightMove and Zoopla.
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)!
) - do take the discount with half a truck of salt - I have no idea where some of them come from & aside from as a very crude way of sorting the SM listings, would give them zero credence!
the main one i took a nibble out of has been rented for the last 8 months and nothing other than the usual deductions. I think this will be me for equity p2p, the £100 min investment, given my current situation does put me off.