|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 18:57:53 GMT
I agree on the above point on their strategy. That message from them sounded like something they designed to try and keep everyone quiet for a while, but is pretty vague and far too general.
I also have about 10k as with the above poster.
PM say they have £12,665,000 invested total. Of which I imagine some is rent being put back into property investments.
Let's see how much we have together. Hopefully enough to have some clout.
|
|
|
|
Post by penguinz on Jan 5, 2018 0:34:37 GMT
Hi all,
I am also interested in joining the PM Action Group,chiefly due to the dismal performance of PM50 and the 5k debt which has suddenly been sprung on investors. I'm a small fish, 3K invested in different properties.
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,591 
Likes: 1,735
|
Post by benaj on Jan 5, 2018 1:05:48 GMT
Hi all,
I started a small investment in PM 8 months ago and received a few emails from Ben G regarding scheduling a call for further investment around 6th Dec but I decided not to at the time. If I received the message sent from 22nd Dec , it would be a different story.
Personally, I feel strongly there needs to be more documentation provided by PM. such as receipts (fees paid for repairs / renovation / etc ) / provision fund size / bespoke policy details / bank statement of each SPV (rental income / interest free loan) / Valuation document / Final sales contract
|
|
Steerpike
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,977
Likes: 1,687
|
Post by Steerpike on Jan 5, 2018 10:11:55 GMT
There seems to be far more ongoing information provided on PM than on say PP, perhaps openness begets unrest?
Anyway, after 1 year with PP my XIRR is 1.92% and after 2 years on PM it is 8.32%.
I have had some poor investments on PM and others that were quite profitable (fewer of these recently).
It seems more difficult to measure individual loan performance on PP.
|
|
|
|
Post by sayyestocress on Jan 5, 2018 12:32:52 GMT
There seems to be far more ongoing information provided on PM than on say PP, perhaps openness begets unrest? Anyway, after 1 year with PP my XIRR is 1.92% and after 2 years on PM it is 8.32%. I have had some poor investments on PM and others that were quite profitable (fewer of these recently). It seems more difficult to measure individual loan performance on PP. I can see where you're coming from. On PP you don't have the level of visibility on the monthly outgoings that you get with PM, like how much the SPV paid for other people's broadband and how many months the tenant has been unable to pay the rent. Perhaps ignorance is bliss? The main issue for me is the PM projected returns are generally way off and there are some absolute steaming turds on the platform (admittedly there are some nice little earners), whereas PP has always met or exceeded the projected dividend (though share value at exit is yet to be tested). This speaks volumes about credibility and whether they can be trusted to provide and run desirable investment opportunities. Am I correct in assuming that you invest mainly in the loan/debt products on PM to get a return that high? Are your PP holdings limited to the earlier London properties where yields are in the 2-3% range to get a return that low? I only invested in BTS and BTL on PM and my returns were no better than PP despite projected yields being notably higher and with arguably less scope for property value growth. I started with both companies at the same time, put a similar amount in and got reasonably well diversified throughout their offerings so I think my comparison is reasonable with the exclusion of PM's debt products that PP do not offer a comparable product. Currently PM can barely fund a 5 figure 2 bed semi whilst PP bring in 7 figures of new money a month. If I had to back one horse lasting the test of time it wouldn't be the moose.
|
|
Steerpike
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,977
Likes: 1,687
|
Post by Steerpike on Jan 5, 2018 13:00:20 GMT
I can see where you're coming from. On PP you don't have the level of visibility on the monthly outgoings that you get with PM, like how much the SPV paid for other people's broadband and how many months the tenant has been unable to pay the rent. Perhaps ignorance is bliss? The main issue for me is the PM projected returns are generally way off and there are some absolute steaming turds on the platform (admittedly there are some nice little earners), whereas PP has always met or exceeded the projected dividend (though share value at exit is yet to be tested). This speaks volumes about credibility and whether they can be trusted to provide and run desirable investment opportunities. Am I correct in assuming that you invest mainly in the loan/debt products on PM to get a return that high? Are your PP holdings limited to the earlier London properties where yields are in the 2-3% range to get a return that low? I only invested in BTS and BTL on PM and my returns were no better than PP despite projected yields being notably higher and with arguably less scope for property value growth. I started with both companies at the same time, put a similar amount in and got reasonably well diversified throughout their offerings so I think my comparison is reasonable with the exclusion of PM's debt products that PP do not offer a comparable product. Currently PM can barely fund a 5 figure 2 bed semi whilst PP bring in 7 figures of new money a month. If I had to back one horse lasting the test of time it wouldn't be the moose. I agree with all of that about PM, my return was inflated by the profit on loan notes and SM sales thereof, however, currently all of my remaining BTL properties are regularly paying rent, so I am reasonably content. Probably my PP return is low due to comparatively short time on the platform, upfront fees, and idle funds awaiting investment. I only fairly recently started using auto-invest.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 18:43:15 GMT
I can see where you're coming from. On PP you don't have the level of visibility on the monthly outgoings that you get with PM, like how much the SPV paid for other people's broadband and how many months the tenant has been unable to pay the rent. Perhaps ignorance is bliss? The main issue for me is the PM projected returns are generally way off and there are some absolute steaming turds on the platform (admittedly there are some nice little earners), whereas PP has always met or exceeded the projected dividend (though share value at exit is yet to be tested). This speaks volumes about credibility and whether they can be trusted to provide and run desirable investment opportunities. Am I correct in assuming that you invest mainly in the loan/debt products on PM to get a return that high? Are your PP holdings limited to the earlier London properties where yields are in the 2-3% range to get a return that low? I only invested in BTS and BTL on PM and my returns were no better than PP despite projected yields being notably higher and with arguably less scope for property value growth. I started with both companies at the same time, put a similar amount in and got reasonably well diversified throughout their offerings so I think my comparison is reasonable with the exclusion of PM's debt products that PP do not offer a comparable product. Currently PM can barely fund a 5 figure 2 bed semi whilst PP bring in 7 figures of new money a month. If I had to back one horse lasting the test of time it wouldn't be the moose. I agree with all of that about PM, my return was inflated by the profit on loan notes and SM sales thereof, however, currently all of my remaining BTL properties are regularly paying rent, so I am reasonably content. Probably my PP return is low due to comparatively short time on the platform, upfront fees, and idle funds awaiting investment. I only fairly recently started using auto-invest. Have any of your PM properties reached end of term? If so, have they been sold? Have your loan note investments been paid back with the correct interest on top? My XIRR on PM is about 3% and that's assuming they can even sell anything which they haven't yet. I have big diversity across many SPVs as well.
|
|
Steerpike
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,977
Likes: 1,687
|
Post by Steerpike on Jan 5, 2018 19:15:26 GMT
Have any of your PM properties reached end of term? If so, have they been sold? Have your loan note investments been paid back with the correct interest on top? My XIRR on PM is about 3% and that's assuming they can even sell anything which they haven't yet. I have big diversity across many SPVs as well. My first investment was SPV 32, I recall SPV 77 paying out OK, most of the others I sold before term. I am not currently selling, and still have modest holdings in 15 BTLs including SPV 38 which I am watching with interest as it approaches term.
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,591
Likes: 1,735
|
Post by benaj on Jan 5, 2018 19:19:18 GMT
]Have any of your PM properties reached end of term? If so, have they been sold? Have your loan note investments been paid back with the correct interest on top? My XIRR on PM is about 3% and that's assuming they can even sell anything which they haven't yet. I have big diversity across many SPVs as well. I had a tiny bite with PM SPV 84. Got my money back and profit after 7 months of investment. Other investment have not reached end of term yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 20:10:03 GMT
Have any of your PM properties reached end of term? If so, have they been sold? Have your loan note investments been paid back with the correct interest on top? My XIRR on PM is about 3% and that's assuming they can even sell anything which they haven't yet. I have big diversity across many SPVs as well. My first investment was SPV 32, I recall SPV 77 paying out OK, most of the others I sold before term. I am not currently selling, and still have modest holdings in 15 BTLs including SPV 38 which I am watching with interest as it approaches term. I'm in SPV32 as well though it still has 12 months on its term. So SPV77 was sold?
|
|
|
|
Post by robert490 on Jan 6, 2018 9:59:46 GMT
Hi all,
I have just registered, and this is my first post so be kind... 
I totally agree Property Moose is really beginning to take the biscuit, the whole issue of PM not paying out our rent for payments received after the 18th December, until end of Jan, is ridiculous and ever so sneaky! I get the feeling PM think they can do what they like....
I also have properties that PM have failed to rent out for ages and now finally tenanted I am going to have to wait months, and months for any rent, firstly paying off the substantial loan that has suddenly developed to PM, when if they were doing there job properly they would have rented these out much quicker, and efficiently. Grrrr.....
I am into PM for about 14.5k so I very much would like to add my name to the group.They need to answer some serious questions....
|
|
|
|
Post by propertycalf on Jan 6, 2018 11:55:32 GMT
Hi all,
I have just registered, and this is my first post so be kind...
I totally agree Property Moose is really beginning to take the biscuit, the whole issue of PM not paying out our rent for payments received after the 18th December, until end of Jan, is ridiculous and ever so sneaky! I get the feeling PM think they can do what they like....
I also have properties that PM have failed to rent out for ages and now finally tenanted I am going to have to wait months, and months for any rent, firstly paying off the substantial loan that has suddenly developed to PM, when if they were doing there job properly they would have rented these out much quicker, and efficiently. Grrrr.....
I am into PM for about 14.5k so I very much would like to add my name to the group.They need to answer some serious questions.... Welcome Robert.. I honestly think pm will have to sit up and listen to the combined members who have already showed interest. Maybe we could begin to compile our main grievances, so that our representative (whoever that will be) will start to have an idea of what to say. We are only taking taking PM to task about their claims to "democratise buy to let" Democracy = control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.
|
|
|
|
Post by propertycalf on Jan 6, 2018 12:01:41 GMT
Or maybe we might opt to simultaneously message PM with messages that mirror each others. That might have a bigger impact!?
|
|
|
|
Post by robert490 on Jan 7, 2018 10:59:29 GMT
Or maybe we might opt to simultaneously message PM with messages that mirror each others. That might have a bigger impact!? I think the best way, would be to approach PM as a group, with someone acting as our spokesperson...rather than individually messaging PM.
|
|
jnm21
Posts: 441
Likes: 167
|
Post by jnm21 on Jan 7, 2018 14:14:02 GMT
"would expect some communication from them..." That is a massive mistake!
|
|
