Esmeralda
Member of DD Central
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Post by Esmeralda on Nov 13, 2017 13:17:01 GMT
I've been very fortunate in my efforts to sell out. I had just under £5,700 invested, mostly at £50 or £100 per property, and I'm now down to £231 invested. I've only lost £37-odds on sales so far but rents received more than make up for that so I'm not out pocket. My last 4 properties are stuck in the SM but I'm happy to be nearly rid of this unsuccesful venture. The returns have been much less than PM said that they expected them to be and "first month rent-free" periods, expenses that investors shouldn't be paying and long tenant-free periods or rents not paid have made this a very disappointing platform. However, I gave it a go and I've come out the other end quite unscathed, so thank goodness for that. It could have been a lot worse. Good luck to everybody else on here that's trying to escape.
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Post by sayyestocress on Nov 13, 2017 13:56:24 GMT
It looked so good when they started, PP has been so much better and professional.
PM claim to curate their properties and to have an experienced property team but outcomes so far suggest their property pickers are not even up to novice common sense level. I know that says a lot about me as well, but I did have some faith in them to start with.
I definitely agree that PP appear more professional and their secondary market is second to none. PM are buying from and renting to a very different area of the housing market in comparison with PP, though and are thus likely quite different beasts. The lumpy returns and iffy capital gain/loss may just be the nature of buying cheap(ish) houses outright and typically renting to those on housing benefits for potentially high rental yields. PP buy more expensive blocks of properties, mostly with gearing in areas with a good employment outlook that suit young professionals but with lower potential rental yield but should achieve better growth. PP haven't yet been tested on an end of term so we don't know how that will turn out, whereas people should know what to expect by now with PM. PP are also more transparent in the monthly costs and tenanting situation than PP, giving us more room for criticism. Personally I will continue to use both as I see them as complimentary and diversification within the English housing market. Though saying that if I had to bet on one horse I wouldn't currently bet on the moose 
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Nov 13, 2017 14:19:14 GMT
I've been very fortunate in my efforts to sell out. I had just under £5,700 invested, mostly at £50 or £100 per property, and I'm now down to £231 invested. I've only lost £37-odds on sales so far but rents received more than make up for that so I'm not out pocket. My last 4 properties are stuck in the SM but I'm happy to be nearly rid of this unsuccesful venture. The returns have been much less than PM said that they expected them to be and "first month rent-free" periods, expenses that investors shouldn't be paying and long tenant-free periods or rents not paid have made this a very disappointing platform. However, I gave it a go and I've come out the other end quite unscathed, so thank goodness for that. It could have been a lot worse. Good luck to everybody else on here that's trying to escape. Yes, this is pretty much the situation I'm in, although my max investment was about 2.5k. Now selling out fairly readily for generally 10/20p loss per share, but all covered by my rental income. Agreed on your comments about the platform. I also found the quality of information about properties and the case for investment to be very poorly researched/written. This was something I spotted with the original descriptiom for the cambridgeshire property. This was originally marketed as if it was in Cambridgre, when in reality it was 25(?) miles away and most of the reasons given for investment clearly didn't apply. They've since updated the listing (and removed the links to the daily mail as a source!). Since I only spotted this as I know the area, it made me very concerned about the info on other listings that I might not have noticed.
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littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 1,862
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Post by littleoldlady on Nov 13, 2017 15:51:14 GMT
I've been very fortunate in my efforts to sell out. I had just under £5,700 invested, mostly at £50 or £100 per property, and I'm now down to £231 invested. I've only lost £37-odds on sales so far but rents received more than make up for that so I'm not out pocket. My last 4 properties are stuck in the SM but I'm happy to be nearly rid of this unsuccesful venture. The returns have been much less than PM said that they expected them to be and "first month rent-free" periods, expenses that investors shouldn't be paying and long tenant-free periods or rents not paid have made this a very disappointing platform. However, I gave it a go and I've come out the other end quite unscathed, so thank goodness for that. It could have been a lot worse. Good luck to everybody else on here that's trying to escape. Yes, this is pretty much the situation I'm in, although my max investment was about 2.5k. Now selling out fairly readily for generally 10/20p loss per share, but all covered by my rental income. Agreed on your comments about the platform. I also found the quality of information about properties and the case for investment to be very poorly researched/written. This was something I spotted with the original descriptiom for the cambridgeshire property. This was originally marketed as if it was in Cambridgre, when in reality it was 25(?) miles away and most of the reasons given for investment clearly didn't apply. They've since updated the listing (and removed the links to the daily mail as a source!). Since I only spotted this as I know the area, it made me very concerned about the info on other listings that I might not have noticed. Agree with you both. Don't forget that if you break even before tax you will be out of pocket if you have to pay tax on the income as the capital loss will not be offset against the rent AIUI.
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hazellend
Member of DD Central
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Post by hazellend on Nov 13, 2017 16:12:44 GMT
Put it this way, if somebody offered to buy my PM portfolio off me for a 20% discount to my buy in price I would take it, and that would mean a 10k loss lol.
It looked so good when they started, PP has been so much better and professional.
PM claim to curate their properties and to have an experienced property team but outcomes so far suggest their property pickers are not even up to novice common sense level. I know that says a lot about me as well, but I did have some faith in them to start with.
Correct if I am wrong, but do you therefore have £50k with PM? I wouldn't say that my experience has been terrible with PM but based on what I've read here along with PM not having sold almost anything, as well as the low occupancy of certain properties, as well as the lower than stated expected yields... yea, I'm a bit worried. I wish I'd joined up with PP from what I read. Unfortunately you are correct
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ben
Posts: 2,020
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Post by ben on Nov 13, 2017 16:35:11 GMT
PM are probably my most disappointing site too, it started of so well, I am not looking to sell out but am not investing in any of the new properties either so will wait and see how it goes.
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kaya
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,150
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Post by kaya on Nov 13, 2017 16:58:44 GMT
If you were to score your own sense of (financial?) vulnerability here on Property Moose 1 to 10 with 10 being 'high' what would it be? 7. There is the knowledge that you are not going to suddenly lose your cash through a default, and there is a regular 3-4% income. That might sound good to some, but for me the honeymoon period is definitely over. Perhaps the shennanigans with SPV81 are tipping some investors over the edge, and for that and all the reasons listed above and more, I am also now looking to exit. Not long since I joined! The question is, how much pain to bear in the form of discount? Well discounted £10 shares (5%+ on nominal value) will probably sell quite quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2017 17:25:24 GMT
Correct if I am wrong, but do you therefore have £50k with PM? I wouldn't say that my experience has been terrible with PM but based on what I've read here along with PM not having sold almost anything, as well as the low occupancy of certain properties, as well as the lower than stated expected yields... yea, I'm a bit worried. I wish I'd joined up with PP from what I read. Unfortunately you are correct I don't have as much as you but I probably have more than many. I'm planning to just hold for the long term at this point. I'm getting about 3.6% a year in rental yield and don't see selling as a good idea in my view at the moment.
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littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,045
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Post by littleoldlady on Nov 13, 2017 18:50:49 GMT
Unfortunately you are correct I don't have as much as you but I probably have more than many. I'm planning to just hold for the long term at this point. I'm getting about 3.6% a year in rental yield and don't see selling as a good idea in my view at the moment. Selling is certainly not a happy prospect, but holding requires more faith in the platform than I have. It's a Devil and the DBS situation.
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kulerucket
Member of DD Central
Posts: 336
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Post by kulerucket on Nov 13, 2017 21:49:15 GMT
I think I will continue edging the price down until I start getting bites. At 2-3% returns I would rather take a bit of a loss and put the money to better use. I don't think I'd go as low as 20% though.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2017 23:33:58 GMT
I don't have as much as you but I probably have more than many. I'm planning to just hold for the long term at this point. I'm getting about 3.6% a year in rental yield and don't see selling as a good idea in my view at the moment. Selling is certainly not a happy prospect, but holding requires more faith in the platform than I have. It's a Devil and the DBS situation. I am worried about this too. The platform failing/disappearing etc. Almost everything I'm reading about PM is really bad right now. So you're selling out at a % discount? Are people really buying?!
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damar
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Post by damar on Nov 14, 2017 7:05:03 GMT
I too am selling gout because of the very poor returns and poor communication,
I am down to two properties, every month after dividend payout, I reduce them a bit more, as this is when they seem to sell best, when others have been paid interest. Although I am stuck with SPV41 as the revaluation seems to be going on forever, I have had no response from four now emails.
I get a much better return on my property investments at MT & Lendy.
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Post by propertycalf on Nov 14, 2017 9:57:21 GMT
Is this a matter of cut your losses or be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful?
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Nov 14, 2017 10:29:47 GMT
I have been with PM for nearly 2 years now and my investment is showing XIRR of 6.67%.
I have sold some loans on the SM at a small loss and some at a profit, and after weeding out the poor performers almost all of my holdings are currently paying rent every month.
So with care, reasonable returns are possible, but some of the loans particularly in D*rham have been disappointing.
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Post by sayyestocress on Nov 14, 2017 11:36:50 GMT
I get a much better return on my property investments at MT & Lendy. Despite property being a common theme, MT and Lendy are very different propositions to PM and aren't simple to compare IMO. Debt vs equity, short term lending vs long term investment, high risk property development and bridging finance vs lower risk residential property. Returns are also different and are subject to different tax free allowances. I'd imagine people are more likely to exceed the savings/interest allowance and get taxed with MT/Lendy returns with it coming from the same pot as cash savings and being smaller than the dividend/capital gains allowances that the PM equity investment returns pay out as. Adjust the ~12% for risk, defaults and factor in your own tax position and you may find they're not so different.
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