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Post by scepticalinvestor on Jul 17, 2019 12:57:26 GMT
Merely that they are going to try and make the secondary market as efficient as possible....so no. Was that their response to a formal complaint from you or just a message/enquiry?
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jul 17, 2019 13:55:59 GMT
Introducing an ongoing charge which wipes out more than 50% of my historic performance is catastrophic! Indeed, but I suspect it's a better scenario than the catastrophic failure of the business. That's the alternative that the cynic in me reads into the following quote from their blog page: "These changes will make Property Partner a significantly stronger business, that is better able to deliver returns for our clients." In my mind this reads as: These changes are needed because property partner could not continue as a business without them and hence wouldn't be able to deliver any returns I don’t see how that could be possible. They raised over 50 million from venture capital in their first few years. No way could they have burned through that much surely
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jul 17, 2019 14:24:50 GMT
Indeed, but I suspect it's a better scenario than the catastrophic failure of the business. That's the alternative that the cynic in me reads into the following quote from their blog page: "These changes will make Property Partner a significantly stronger business, that is better able to deliver returns for our clients." In my mind this reads as: These changes are needed because property partner could not continue as a business without them and hence wouldn't be able to deliver any returns I don’t see how that could be possible. They raised over 50 million from venture capital in their first few years. No way could they have burned through that much surely I looked a few days ago, and IIRC they lost ~£6m/year for each of the last two reported accounting years. Edit:- my numbers are a little low. I see over £18m of losses in the 4 years for which accounts are available. It is hard to imagine that 2018 and H1 2019 are going well given the changes of CEO, and the repeated increases in fees.
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Post by sayyestocress on Jul 17, 2019 14:54:11 GMT
Indeed, but I suspect it's a better scenario than the catastrophic failure of the business. That's the alternative that the cynic in me reads into the following quote from their blog page: "These changes will make Property Partner a significantly stronger business, that is better able to deliver returns for our clients." In my mind this reads as: These changes are needed because property partner could not continue as a business without them and hence wouldn't be able to deliver any returns I don’t see how that could be possible. They raised over 50 million from venture capital in their first few years. No way could they have burned through that much surely I'm not saying they've burned through it all yet, but if the company never becomes profitable then they will do eventually and up to a certain point venture capitalists may not wish to plough any more money in. If I understand the accounts correctly they had 3 mill on the balance sheet at the end of 2017 and lost roughly 17 mill combined over 2015,2016 and 2017. Its a shame we won't see accounts up to the end of 2018 until the end of 2019.
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rick24
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Post by rick24 on Jul 17, 2019 15:12:59 GMT
Merely that they are going to try and make the secondary market as efficient as possible....so no. Was that their response to a formal complaint from you or just a message/enquiry? Response to a message by the CEO.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jul 17, 2019 15:31:53 GMT
I can’t see many of the larger investors (on the platform) investing any more money with the new charges. It looks like an act of self sabotage for short term ill gotten gains.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jul 17, 2019 15:43:12 GMT
I can’t see many of the larger investors (on the platform) investing any more money with the new charges. It looks like an act of self sabotage for short term ill gotten gains. I think that the larger investors are capped:-
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jul 17, 2019 15:45:12 GMT
I’ve gone hard core and left a 1 star review on trustpilot. If lots start to do same they might take notice
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 15:53:45 GMT
A copy of a posting I made on another thread a few minutes ago ........
I would recommend looking up the statutory accounts for these P2P companies that are required by law to be filed at Companies House. Not many P2P companies are profitable. Several are inadequately capitalised and do not have enough cash to gain sufficient traction in what is an overcrowded marketplace. This all makes future fundraising rounds more difficult. I would expect a number to go out of business in due course. The worst case I have found is Property Partner, which is a trading name owned by London House Exchange Limited The LHE financial year is the calendar year, i.e. 1st January to 31st December. LHE has filed accounts for 2015, 2016 and 2017. It has not yet filed accounts for 2018. The accounts, which are signed off by external auditors give the following results in £. Year 2015 Income - £379,055 Loss - £4,247,024 Year 2016 Income - £991,406 Loss - £7,247,698 Year 2017 Income - £2,022,363 Loss - £5,945,622 The Balance Sheet at 31st December 2017 showed cumulative losses over several years of £17,964,565 and a Balance Sheet net worth (estimated liquidation value) of £2,929,102. We do not know the financial position of LHE from 1st January 2018 onwards. However, it is legitimate to ask if LHE will run out of cash if it cannot transform losses into profits and cannot raise further capital in new fundraising rounds. This week, Property Partner announced hefty fee increases for its investors.
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rick24
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Post by rick24 on Jul 17, 2019 16:29:26 GMT
A copy of a posting I made on another thread a few minutes ago ........ I would recommend looking up the statutory accounts for these P2P companies that are required by law to be filed at Companies House. Not many P2P companies are profitable. Several are inadequately capitalised and do not have enough cash to gain sufficient traction in what is an overcrowded marketplace. This all makes future fundraising rounds more difficult. I would expect a number to go out of business in due course. The worst case I have found is Property Partner, which is a trading name owned by London House Exchange Limited The LHE financial year is the calendar year, i.e. 1st January to 31st December. LHE has filed accounts for 2015, 2016 and 2017. It has not yet filed accounts for 2018. The accounts, which are signed off by external auditors give the following results in £. Year 2015 Income - £379,055 Loss - £4,247,024 Year 2016 Income - £991,406 Loss - £7,247,698 Year 2017 Income - £2,022,363 Loss - £5,945,622 The Balance Sheet at 31st December 2017 showed cumulative losses over several years of £17,964,565 and a Balance Sheet net worth (estimated liquidation value) of £2,929,102. We do not know the financial position of LHE from 1st January 2018 onwards. However, it is legitimate to ask if LHE will run out of cash if it cannot transform losses into profits and cannot raise further capital in new fundraising rounds. This week, Property Partner announced hefty fee increases for its investors. From their point of view, I would hope they could more than double their income and cut their operating costs.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jul 18, 2019 10:38:12 GMT
PP has Nasdaq style "circuit breakers", except they last all day, not 15 minutes! My attempt to sell down wasn't a fat finger. They don't say how far but my guess is that it is set at 20% (of the 30 day average, this they do say).
EDIT: BTW I have to do a browser reload to see sales and changes in my balance - it might be a setting in my browser.
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rick24
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Post by rick24 on Jul 18, 2019 11:56:23 GMT
Market movements don't look too disastrous so far.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jul 18, 2019 12:17:34 GMT
Market movements don't look too disastrous so far. There does seem to be a bid for some of the larger properties at 15%-20% down on the valuation. But some also have no bid, and my guess is some would sell down below 20% change - which they (and I) can't - see my previous post.
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Post by shootingstar on Jul 18, 2019 14:17:58 GMT
I'm looking to reduce my exposure and sold what I could at a reasonable price but that wasn't a good %.
Don't seem to be many secondary market buyers!
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jul 18, 2019 14:52:07 GMT
SM now looks illiquid unless you are desperate enough to sell at a huge discount. Bring on the 5 year votes. I can see AUM dropping as most will want out
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