firedog
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Shojin
Apr 27, 2024 19:20:55 GMT
Post by firedog on Apr 27, 2024 19:20:55 GMT
Good news - probably the thing that's stopped me investing with Shojin thus far. Seems to apply to future investments only (the ones available at the moment still appear to have the £5k minimum). I've just invested in the B******t C***t loan. I ignored the £5k minimum information on the website and in the Investment Memorandum, and when I got to the actual point of investment it did allow £1k minimums. Useful to know thanks. Can I ask, why that one, and not the other open opportunity (similar LTVs, predicted returns, but the other has no development risk?)
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Post by Ace on Apr 27, 2024 19:42:15 GMT
I've just invested in the B******t C***t loan. I ignored the £5k minimum information on the website and in the Investment Memorandum, and when I got to the actual point of investment it did allow £1k minimums. Useful to know thanks. Can I ask, why that one, and not the other open opportunity (similar LTVs, predicted returns, but the other has no development risk?) I was intending to invest in the other one too, but I wasn't happy that the investment had been running for nearly a year and I didn't have access to the quarterly updates. So, I could be investing in a loan that was in trouble without knowing it. I've pointed this out to Shojin in my email.
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dave4
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Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Shojin
Apr 27, 2024 20:27:44 GMT
Post by dave4 on Apr 27, 2024 20:27:44 GMT
There was a verbal nudge of 20k or more min on future loans in the last webinar. Im not so sure this will come to fruition, think they will struggle to fill loans at 20k and will have to drop to lower amounts, the last loan still shows as available? (im assuming it did'nt fill)? dave4 knew all along. Pfffff
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qwakuk
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Post by qwakuk on Apr 29, 2024 16:54:28 GMT
I looked at Shojin for the first time as minimum dropped to £1,000 and asked a question concerning the older of the two investments, got an answer this morning
Thank you for registering and for getting in contact.
We have previously hidden project updates where the updates have contained Private and Confidential information. In this instance that is not the case - I have attached the latest update (updates are done quarterly unless there is something specific to add).
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Will have a read later and make a decision.
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p2pfan
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Full-Time Investor
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Shojin
May 11, 2024 15:29:03 GMT
Post by p2pfan on May 11, 2024 15:29:03 GMT
What's your current thoughts on investing with Shojin?
What worries me is:
(a) they have been constantly trying, through a variety of means, to raise funds to cover the costs of running their business. So one wonders how much financial reserves they have to keep their operations going?
(b) a sizeable ratio of their loans seem to be in hot water, with projects now running significantly late and/or being over-budget.
They seem to be flying by the seat of their pants.
On the other hand, they seem to be a professionally run set-up and on the ball with trying to get borrowers' projects to complete and pay lenders back. We all know that property development projects often significantly overrun etc. but usually eventually come good.
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Shojin
May 11, 2024 16:56:02 GMT
Post by overthehill on May 11, 2024 16:56:02 GMT
What's your current thoughts on investing with Shojin? What worries me is: (a) they have been constantly trying, through a variety of means, to raise funds to cover the costs of running their business. So one wonders how much financial reserves they have to keep their operations going? (b) a sizeable ratio of their loans seem to be in hot water, with projects now running significantly late and/or being over-budget. They seem to be flying by the seat of their pants. On the other hand, they seem to be a professionally run set-up and on the ball with trying to get borrowers' projects to complete and pay lenders back. We all know that property development projects often significantly overrun etc. but usually eventually come good.
How much are you going to earn with shojin ? I don't know anything about them but discounted them right from the beginning because of the marketing, like Blend as I remember. I prefer lower cost smaller setups and websites like proplend and landlordinvest. You're better off putting it in the axiafunder housing disrepair claims IMO or SOMO (I'm not heavily invested in either BTW). Capitalrise has 100% record if your preference is development. Even the 30% LTV bridging loans on kuflink are offering 9.5%
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dave4
Member of DD Central
Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on May 11, 2024 17:26:12 GMT
What's your current thoughts on investing with Shojin? What worries me is: (a) they have been constantly trying, through a variety of means, to raise funds to cover the costs of running their business. So one wonders how much financial reserves they have to keep their operations going? (b) a sizeable ratio of their loans seem to be in hot water, with projects now running significantly late and/or being over-budget. They seem to be flying by the seat of their pants. On the other hand, they seem to be a professionally run set-up and on the ball with trying to get borrowers' projects to complete and pay lenders back. We all know that property development projects often significantly overrun etc. but usually eventually come good.
How much are you going to earn with shojin ? I don't know anything about them but discounted them right from the beginning because of the marketing, like Blend as I remember. I prefer lower cost smaller setups and websites like proplend and landlordinvest. You're better off putting it in the axiafunder housing disrepair claims IMO or SOMO (I'm not heavily invested in either BTW). Capitalrise has 100% record if your preference is development. Even the 30% LTV bridging loans on kuflink are offering 9.5%
Rates are between 15 to 18 %. Upto be 5 k a slice, was way we more than back in the day 20k or maybe 50k a slice, now 1k a slice. Shojin has been profitable for a while now. Is expanding into foreign soils so greater exposure to different economys. There on there 2nd round (I think) of funding. To fund the expansion. Have skin in the game, not as much as in the past (I think). Have introduced a secondary market of sorts. Bin around for ages
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on May 11, 2024 19:29:08 GMT
Rates are between 15 to 18 %. Upto be 5 k a slice, was way we more than back in the day 20k or maybe 50k a slice, now 1k a slice. Shojin has been profitable for a while now. Is expanding into foreign soils so greater exposure to different economys. There on there 2nd round (I think) of funding. To fund the expansion. Have skin in the game, not as much as in the past (I think). Have introduced a secondary market of sorts. Bin around for ages Not that it matters much, but are they 'true' P2P? I can't seem to find any performance stats or Outcome Statements. Maybe they are behind the sign-in. Also, their risk statement doesn't read like any other P2P company's I've seen. (And it doesn't seem to have been updated since 2019, which raises an eye-brow.) Final question. Do they identify the borrowers? (Or identify when a borrower has multiple loans on the platform?) After the SD debacle at Lendy, I abandoned Ablrate due to the similarities with AF. IMHO, it is absolutely imperative to know who the borrowers are and what their exposure is. Speaking of Lendy, I bookmarked this back in the day. Always worth a timely (re)visit, methinks...
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 10,896
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Post by ilmoro on May 11, 2024 21:05:52 GMT
Rates are between 15 to 18 %. Upto be 5 k a slice, was way we more than back in the day 20k or maybe 50k a slice, now 1k a slice. Shojin has been profitable for a while now. Is expanding into foreign soils so greater exposure to different economys. There on there 2nd round (I think) of funding. To fund the expansion. Have skin in the game, not as much as in the past (I think). Have introduced a secondary market of sorts. Bin around for ages Not that it matters much, but are they 'true' P2P? I can't seem to find any performance stats or Outcome Statements. Maybe they are behind the sign-in. Also, their risk statement doesn't read like any other P2P company's I've seen. (And it doesn't seem to have been updated since 2019, which raises an eye-brow.) Final question. Do they identify the borrowers? (Or identify when a borrower has multiple loans on the platform?) After the SD debacle at Lendy, I abandoned Ablrate due to the similarities with AF. IMHO, it is absolutely imperative to know who the borrowers are and what their exposure is. Speaking of Lendy, I bookmarked this back in the day. Always worth a timely (re)visit, methinks... No, its not true P2P. Its bonds in an SPV who lend to the end borrower (same a Capitalrise) or equity (often preferred). They have investment & unregulated AIF (capped size) permissions Yes, borrowers identified. They provide a detailed investment document, which includes a section on the developer, history, other projects, incl those with the platform and a corporate structure for the full deal. They are quite complex investments usually, high end projects (double digit million GDV) complex structures, often mezz finance with high LTV.
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p2pfan
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Full-Time Investor
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Shojin
May 12, 2024 12:35:01 GMT
Ace likes this
Post by p2pfan on May 12, 2024 12:35:01 GMT
Rates are between 15 to 18 %. Upto be 5 k a slice, was way we more than back in the day 20k or maybe 50k a slice, now 1k a slice. Shojin has been profitable for a while now. Is expanding into foreign soils so greater exposure to different economys. There on there 2nd round (I think) of funding. To fund the expansion. Have skin in the game, not as much as in the past (I think). Have introduced a secondary market of sorts. Bin around for ages Not that it matters much, but are they 'true' P2P? I can't seem to find any performance stats or Outcome Statements. Maybe they are behind the sign-in. Also, their risk statement doesn't read like any other P2P company's I've seen. (And it doesn't seem to have been updated since 2019, which raises an eye-brow.) Final question. Do they identify the borrowers? (Or identify when a borrower has multiple loans on the platform?) After the SD debacle at Lendy, I abandoned Ablrate due to the similarities with AF. IMHO, it is absolutely imperative to know who the borrowers are and what their exposure is. Speaking of Lendy, I bookmarked this back in the day. Always worth a timely (re)visit, methinks... That's a foreboding article from the FT about Lendy! Thank you for sharing. Shojin does provide oodles of information about the borrowers and each project they would like to fund. As ilmoro states, their Information Memorandums are detailed: they can be about 25 pages long. They also run webinars that can be an hour long to discuss projects in detail and answer lenders' questions. However, the issue with any P2P or similar lending platform is that we simply don't know what's really happening behind the scenes. Even with signed off reports from third-party accountants or auditors, one never knows whether anybody else's business is in hot water or not. For instance, is a business raising money to grow and expand, or because they are desperately struggling to stay afloat? The one thing we know for certain is that if any of these lending platforms close down, lenders are highly unlikely to get any of their money back - or, at best, a pittance of what they invested perhaps five years later. The FCA and Directors of these platforms should be put in jail if they give the impression that their wind-down processes have been fully pre-funded and will protect lenders' investments if a platform goes into Administration etc. Those fraudulent assertions have cost lenders' tens of millions of pounds of their hard-earned monies. Personally I'm still continuing to invest in Shojin as they have been in this line of work for a fairly long time now, seem to be a professionally-run outfit and the returns are fair. But obviously I'm keeping a close eye on them, as much as it is possible to do from afar.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 10,896
Likes: 11,118
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Post by ilmoro on May 12, 2024 12:53:44 GMT
Not that it matters much, but are they 'true' P2P? I can't seem to find any performance stats or Outcome Statements. Maybe they are behind the sign-in. Also, their risk statement doesn't read like any other P2P company's I've seen. (And it doesn't seem to have been updated since 2019, which raises an eye-brow.) Final question. Do they identify the borrowers? (Or identify when a borrower has multiple loans on the platform?) After the SD debacle at Lendy, I abandoned Ablrate due to the similarities with AF. IMHO, it is absolutely imperative to know who the borrowers are and what their exposure is. Speaking of Lendy, I bookmarked this back in the day. Always worth a timely (re)visit, methinks... That's a foreboding article from the FT about Lendy! Thank you for sharing. Shojin does provide oodles of information about the borrowers and each project they would like to fund. As ilmoro states, their Information Memorandums are detailed: they can be about 25 pages long. They also run webinars that can be an hour long to discuss projects in detail and answer lenders' questions. However, the issue with any P2P or similar lending platform is that we simply don't know what's really happening behind the scenes. Even with signed off reports from third-party accountants or auditors, one never knows whether anybody else's business is in hot water or not. For instance, is a business raising money to grow and expand, or because they are desperately struggling to stay afloat? The one thing we know for certain is that if any of these lending platforms close down, lenders are highly unlikely to get any of their money back - or, at best, a pittance of what they invested perhaps five years later. The FCA and Directors of these platforms should be put in jail if they give the impression that their wind-down processes have been fully pre-funded and will protect lenders' investments if a platform goes into Administration etc. Those fraudulent assertions have cost lenders' tens of millions of pounds of their hard-earned monies. Personally I'm still continuing to invest in Shojin as they have been in this line of work for a fairly long time now, seem to be a professionally-run outfit and the returns are fair. But obviously I'm keeping a close eye on them, as much as it is possible to do from afar. They need to up date their risk management stuff ... there is a lot of incomprehensible jargon about capital requirements etc but its 5 years out of date. It is impossible to determine whether it has any worth. Platforms should be required to make it clear what funding they have to manage an insolvent winddown ... & yes there should be accountability by directors & FCA if the winddown plans fail.
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